Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I know. I forgot the phrase "even begin to".
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There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?
- Thread starter an anarchist
- Start date
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
In correct. You do not know what the term "Spinoza's God" means.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
There was a letter that he wrote to I believe a Roman Catholic priest of some sort saying something on the order of "you may think of me as an atheist". I will have to see if I can find it.
You know, I think this question is not so much about theistic belief, but much more generally about why humans believe a lot of the things that they do -- often not just without evidence, but in the face of much evidence to the contrary! And yet, this is quintessentially a part of human nature -- we do it, and we do it a lot.
Just for example, immense amounts of energy have been spent looking for any evidence whatever for widespread election fraud in the last US election. And over and over and over again, the finding is that there is none. OAN just recently had to admit so on air, no doubt much to its chagrin. Does this lack of evidence (or even the admission by OAN) have any effect at all on the persistent belief of Trump supporters that there was indeed widespread fraud, and the election was indeed stolen.
How many millions of people believe in homeopathy -- despite the fact that science says it's quackery?
How many millions of people believe in astrology? What on earth can the position of planets have to do with the birth of a human? Their only effect on us is immeasurably small gravity -- the doctor or midwife had an immensely bigger gravitational effect on you at birth than Mars or Saturn ever could.
Sorry this was so long, but I hope it wasn't too off-topic. The far more interesting question than "why believe in God with no evidence" is "why do humans believe so many things even in the face of contrary evidence?"
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
On 24 April 1929, Einstein cabled Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein in German: "I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."
He believed in a revealed God.
Sheldon
Veteran Member
Not to worry, a far more troubling claim from @Wildswanderer is this one:
He has refused to admit that victims of rape have done nothing to "cause the situation".
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Do several things at once, so I have not found the letter that I am thinking of, but this source makes his lack of belief in a god rather clear:
10 Quotes by Albert Einstein on Personal Gods and Prayer
As for denying an atheist, this is the quote that caused that. If you read it he only did not like certain atheists of his time:
"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."
10 Quotes by Albert Einstein on Personal Gods and Prayer
As for denying an atheist, this is the quote that caused that. If you read it he only did not like certain atheists of his time:
"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Equivocation fallacy.
Luchito Prays
Member
What does it even mean to say 'Jesus is the Truth'? At its very face, it seems like nonsense.
Truth is an abstract property of certain statements: a statement can be true or false.
Jesus was, supposedly, a human that lived about 200 years ago that was also God.
So 'Truth' and 'Jesus Christ' aren't even in the same *category* of object as far as I can see.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Sorry, but you do not appear to have wisdom. Did you not see that knowledge is necessary to have wisdom? So far you have only demonstrated belief and a lack of knowledge.
Believing something really really hard is not "knowledge".
If you understand something you can support it. You have admitted that you do not have knowledge when it comes to the sciences. How can you have wisdom when it comes to the sciences?
First, I think you are misusing the word reveal here, to ascribe to Einstein something it is excessively unlikely (from his own writings) that he believed, and second, I also suspect that you haven't actually read and understood Spinoza.
And that, by Einstein, is what I call "true wisdom."
And it speaks, I think, to @dybmh's comment about Spinoza, because what Spinoza actually seems to have thought -- in the end -- is that "GOD" and "the totality of the universe" were one and the same thing.
But that can be inspected two ways, can't it? One of which is that God is "personal," and therefore the universe (and everything in it) is, and the second being that the universe (and everything in it) is not "personal" but simply is -- and that would then apply to God.
It's an odd thing to consider, but I had a car a long time ago to which I gave the name "Gina" (it was a Italian ****-red Fiat, so of course!), but when I described my car on my insurance policy (Fiat-make-model etc.), it was not a different thing at all when I referred to it as Gina (as in Lollobrigida). Same thing. Same purpose. So having a universe, then naming it "God," does not create a personality -- except in the mind of the namer.
Luchito Prays
Member
Your answer reminds me a story I read long ago.
I think it was the 1800s. A guy traveled in a ship and arrive to a new land to start a new life. But, thieves stole all his goods, his money, everything and this guy ended kicking stones on the street. He found a job next day, carrying bags from a ship to a storage place on land.
When the day ended, he was told his pay will be on the next day, not on that night. But he was hungry and thirsty.
He went to a tea saloon and asked for a cookie and some tea. And sitting at the table he took hours eating his meal. The restaurant was to close and the attendant asked him to pay and go.
She was waiting at the side of his table, and this man can't handle anymore... and he started to cry like a child.
The woman understood. She went inside the store and brought him more cookies and tea.
After he finished them, he left the tea saloon in silence, but he promised to himself, that on the next day he will return and pay for what he consumed that night.
On the next day, after finishing his work carrying bags, he received his pay, but instead of going to the tea saloon as he intended the night before, he used the money to travel to another city.
The woman who provided him help, she didn't expect from him to come back on the next day and pay for the cookies and tea.
Many things in this life won't need to have a response. We just do some actions and keep going without expecting anything.
Sometimes prayers are the same. Sometimes you pray giving thanks for your happiness, or because a friend is sick. You don't expect a miracle as the answer, you just told the God how you feel at that moment, and have that kind of peace after your have released your feelings, your thoughts, your good intentions.
There is no need for an answer from the God, but knowing that you have Him always with you. That is also a bless.
It always amazes me how similar 'no response' is to 'not there'. And how often 'got a response' is the same as 'convinced myself this is a response'.
Go figure... and I though that is what you did.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
I'm not trying to prove God exists. I'm explaining what people believe.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
You obviously missed or ignored my post then.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
He is the absolute standard of Truth. If there's no such standard, truth doesn't actually exist, only opinion.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Then you should make that clearer. As written it was a claim. All you need to do is to preface your beliefs with an "I believe that"
Here let me show you:
"I believe that prayer by definition is a conversation with God. It's not a one way conversation."
No one can fault you too much for that.