There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[ElishaElijah]

If you remember i cautioned you against subjecting your beliefs to the critical scrutiny of debate at the very start. Now it appears that after ignoring my sensible advice, you are going to sulk, because people dared to disagree with your claims, refute your arguments, and make it plain they don't share your beliefs and why.

You did make this “Legend in your own mind”comment and no I don’t think much of your comments and definitely don’t care what you think, I don’t take you seriously and doesn’t seem like you have much life experience yet. Sulking? Too much, who does that?

 

[Polymath257]

How would you know?

I grew up in a heavily religious environment.

Let's face it, you just claimed repeatedly that the only sane people on earth are atheists.

No, I did not. There are crazy people in all walks of life. And all people have at least a little bit of insanity.

But I do see there as being a huge difference between someone that plays along with children and talks about the Easter Bunny and someone who actually believes in such a thing.

 

[Ilyan Kei Lavanway]

I’ve been reading through a couple of threads, and I see that it is said that there is no evidence for a god, it’s an unfalsifiable idea. We all agree on this? If you don’t, care to explain the evidence there is for god?
I’m in agreement. I used to believe my personal experiences to be subjective evidence for god, but I know now that’s not the case. I am not a theist anymore because I recognize I was a Christian thanks almost completely to my environment. That’s why I believed. I was brought up in it. Wasn’t because of any proof or anything,
So, theists, why do you believe? Is it mainly because of your environment and geographical location? There is no proof for god (right?), so what logically keeps you believing? Or is logic not supposed to be a factor when it comes to faith? Is it too jarring, the idea of leaving the comfort that religion and belief in a god brings?
I am curious about personal evaluations on why you believe. It can’t be because of logic, as there is no proof of god, right?

I know God exists because he answers my prayers, and I can feel his love for me, individually and personally. Even if he did not answer my prayers, I would still know he exists, because all things denote there is a God. All things are proof of his existence. It is perfectly logical to me that God exists. It is illogical to me to think that he would not exist. Nothing would make any sense if there were no God.

 

[Sheldon]

You did make this “Legend in your own mind”comment

No I didn't that was you, you resorted to petty ad hominem aimed at me.

and no I don’t think much of your comments and definitely don’t care what you think,

I could care less, but you clearly do care or you wouldn't be resorting to petty ad hominem.

I don’t take you seriously and doesn’t seem like you have much life experience yet.

See, another petty ad hominem fallacy.

Sulking? Too much, who does that?

Well started posting petty ad hominem fallacies in almost every response now, while responding to people's posts by telling them, that you don't care what they think or say, the inference seems pretty clear.

 

[Sheldon]

I know God exists because he answers my prayers, and I can feel his love for me, individually and personally. Even if he did not answer my prayers, I would still know he exists, because all things denote there is a God. All things are proof of his existence. It is perfectly logical to me that God exists. It is illogical to me to think that he would not exist. Nothing would make any sense if there were no God.

You seem to be using the word logical purely rhetorically. If a deity answers your prayers that would be easy to demonstrate objective evidence for, so I am extremely dubious about your claim. Especially since when intercessory prayer has been tested, it has been shown not to work. If all things prove a deity to you, then of course you believe it is real, but this is a pretty meaningless claim.

 

[ElishaElijah]

So when you in effect say that to you Jesus Christ is the meaning of and with life, I just do it differently

It’s not to me that Jesus Christ is the Truth, He demonstrated and proved that. He just so happened to show that to me and at the end of this age, will show that. The Bible makes clear these things, that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

 

[Sheldon]

Prayer by definition is a conversation with God. It's not a one way conversation.

I don't think it is you know.

noun

1. a solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or another deity.

 

[Sheldon]

It’s not to me that Jesus Christ is the Truth, He demonstrated and proved that.

I don't believe you, what objective evidence can you demonstrate to support this bare assertion? The biblical accounts are unevidenced hearsay, written long after the events they claim to depict.

He just so happened to show that to me and at the end of this age, will show that.

Ok, but this remains a subjective unevidenced anecdotal claim. No different to someone calming they've been beamed aboard an alien mothership, when there was no one there to see it.

The Bible makes clear these things,

Well it would wouldn't it, so what?

 

[Sheldon]

Mostly, your positions are subjective.

Mostly you make unevidenced claims, then dodge the responses with non-sequitur's like this.

I didn't find a compelling argument to respond.

You made a string of unevidenced claims about what the bible claims Jesus said, I pointed out these are no more than second and third hand hearsay. You can't know what if anything Jesus said or did.

None of that is subjective, and if you don't find that compelling, then you should be able to offer some cogent reason, as I did you the courtesy of providing. As all you seem to have offered is handwaving....

 

[Sheldon]

Let's face it, you just claimed repeatedly that the only sane people on earth are atheists.

Can't say I have ever read a post by @Polymath257 making that claim, could you quote it please?

 

[Sheldon]

Nothing would make any sense if there were no God.

That is a demonstrably false statement, unless you meant would make no sense to you subjectively?

 

[dybmh]

How about Einstein, he not a theist,

"Albert Einstein stated that he believed in the pantheistic God of Baruch Spinoza."

Religious and philosophical views of Albert Einstein - Wikipedia.

 

[Sheldon]

"Albert Einstein stated that he believed in the pantheistic God of Baruch Spinoza."

Religious and philosophical views of Albert Einstein - Wikipedia.

Yes he (Einstein of course disliked the term atheist), however nor was he a theist, and was pretty scathing about the Abrahamic religions.

"the word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."
"For me," he added, "the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions."

"This list of nonreligious Nobel laureates comprises laureates of the Nobel Prize who have self-identified as atheist, agnostic, freethinker, or otherwise nonreligious at some point in their lives. Many of these laureates earlier identified with a religion. In an estimate by Baruch Shalev, between 1901 and 2000, about 10.5% of all laureates, and 35% of those in literature, fall in this category. According to the same estimate, between 1901 and 2000, atheists, agnostics, and freethinkers won 8.9% of the prizes in medicine, 7.1% in chemistry, 5.2% in economics, 4.7% in physics, and 3.6% in peace. Alfred Nobel himself was an atheist later in life. Shalev's book lists many Jewish atheists, agnostics, and freethinkers as religiously Jewish. For example, Milton Friedman, Roald Hoffmann, Richard Feynman, Niels Bohr, Élie Metchnikoff, and Rita Levi-Montalcini are listed as religiously Jewish; however, while they were ethnically and perhaps culturally Jewish, they did not believe in a God and self-identified as atheists."

<LINK> Since Einstein's opinions are not definitive enough, there is a list of Nobel laureates who have self identified as atheists, more than sufficient to refute the absurd claim that only theists have wisdom.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Prayer by definition is a conversation with God. It's not a one way conversation.

No, sorry, it is only claimed to be that. You can't claim that until you prove that your God exists.

 

[dybmh]

Yes he (Einstein of course disliked the term atheist), however nor was he a theist, and was pretty scathing about the Abrahamic religions.

"the word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."
"For me," he added, "the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions."

On 24 April 1929, Einstein cabled Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein in German: "I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind." - Isaacson, Walter (2008). Einstein: His Life and Universe

He believed in a revealed God.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes he (Einstein of course disliked the term atheist), however nor was he a theist, and was pretty scathing about the Abrahamic religions.

"the word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."
"For me," he added, "the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions."

"This list of nonreligious Nobel laureates comprises laureates of the Nobel Prize who have self-identified as atheist, agnostic, freethinker, or otherwise nonreligious at some point in their lives. Many of these laureates earlier identified with a religion. In an estimate by Baruch Shalev, between 1901 and 2000, about 10.5% of all laureates, and 35% of those in literature, fall in this category. According to the same estimate, between 1901 and 2000, atheists, agnostics, and freethinkers won 8.9% of the prizes in medicine, 7.1% in chemistry, 5.2% in economics, 4.7% in physics, and 3.6% in peace. Alfred Nobel himself was an atheist later in life. Shalev's book lists many Jewish atheists, agnostics, and freethinkers as religiously Jewish. For example, Milton Friedman, Roald Hoffmann, Richard Feynman, Niels Bohr, Élie Metchnikoff, and Rita Levi-Montalcini are listed as religiously Jewish; however, while they were ethnically and perhaps culturally Jewish, they did not believe in a God and self-identified as atheists."

<LINK> Since Einstein's opinions are not definitive enough, there is a list of Nobel laureates who have self identified as atheists, more than sufficient to refute the absurd claim that only theists have wisdom.

It appears that he did not like the atheists at the time. But definitions change over time. And by today's definition Einstein would be an atheist. Though no atheist demands that people that prefer the word "agnostic" also claim that they are atheists.

 

[Sheldon]

No, sorry, it is only claimed to be that. You can't claim that until you prove that your God exists.

Even then he would still have to demonstrate that this deity answered people who prayed, before his claim was anything but a meaningless subjective opinion.

 

[dybmh]

by today's definition Einstein would be an atheist

See post #475 - There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

He believed in a revealed God. So not an Atheist.

 

[Sheldon]

It appears that he did not like the atheists at the time. But definitions change over time. And by today's definition Einstein would be an atheist. Though no atheist demands that people that prefer the word "agnostic" also claim that they are atheists.

I'm inclined to agree, but try to leave poor Albert alone, as he seems to be (perhaps predictably) everyone's favourite appeal to authority fallacy. The point was to refute the ludicrous claim that only theists have wisdom, incidentally a claim made without even the pretence of evidence, who then ironically demanded I list people with wisdom, who were not theists.

 

[Sheldon]

See post #475 - There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

He believed in a revealed God. So not an Atheist.

"When asked by the prominent American Rabbi Herbert S. Goldstein if Einstein believed in God in a telegram dated April 25, 1929, he responded that he followed a different doctrine.
“I believe in Spinoza’s God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind,” Einstein replied.

So a deist at best, and not a theist then. Not that it matters, his personal beliefs or the lack thereof were just that. It would be inconsistent of me to disbelieve claims theists make because they are subjective beliefs, and then lend some credence to those of Einstein's subjective beliefs, it would be the very definition of an appeal to authority fallacy, and of course I only used him as an example to refute a specific claim.