There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Sheldon]

He was using a methodology closer to modern science. Ptolemaic "science" began losing its ground around Galileo and Copernicus prior to him.

Indeed, and equally noteworthy is that the church suppressed the empirical evidence Galileo had amassed, angered that his methods were usurping the churches authority. It was the Inquisition and not science that threatened a 68 year old man with torture and showed him the implements, to force him to recant. Then placed him under house arrest for the rest of his life.

 

[Sheldon]

No you only think you do. It's quite possible we are wrong about the very shape of reality.

Oh this tired old canard, deny countless scientific facts, even deny that anything can be objectively known, in order to justify belief in an archaic superstition that has not one shred of objective evidence to support it. It's just too hilarious, especially since you're using technology derived from the methods of science to post your claims.

Tell you what turn your PC off, and pray the message to me, and if god sends it I will believe it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is way known that there is at least a 500 years error made by historians in ancient history.

This common error have caused lots of controversies.

Homer lived on times near the exodus of the Israelite. However, his writings belong to a 500 years different Greek language. To this chronological error, historians have tried to cover it arguing that yes, Homer "told" orally the books of the Iliad and the Odyssey, and "someone" wrote them in a book centuries later.

Sure, right... 500 years later...

To cover their second error, some have tried to say that Homer lived centuries later.

What a bunch of fools.

Other controversies is the finding of Egyptian tombs, which belonged to known authorities. The problem is that the decorative vases found in the tombs, belong to a style that belong to an era centuries before. Then, historians argue that the family of the dead persons went and stole the vases from older ones. This argument is nonsense, since for Egyptians is a curse to do that kind of action.

But historians will say whatever but recognize they are the ones who committed a chronological error.

Your article is another sample of the chronological error committed by historians, not from the biblical narration.

Where do you get your nonsense from? What evidence do you have for these errors.

It seems that every time you do not understand something that it is impossible. News flash: The world does not care if you understand or not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It never fails to amaze me how many Christians are ignorant of this fact, astonishing really.

This is mostly limited to evangelical Christians. Unfortunately, they also tend to be the noisiest so it seems like it is most of them.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I'm already alive. I can't get double alive or anything. As a child, my spirit was like a fluttering ember. Now it's grown into a vast wild fire. But thanks for the offer.

Well, seemed you were saying “communion with God” was something foreign to you.

 

[ElishaElijah]

OF course this rational would make the Harry Potter books evidence of wizardry

I would say that Harry Potter is a satanic seminar

 

[ElishaElijah]

The effect of a belief on a person is not objective evidence the belief is true, no one I suspect would argue that a belief, even a false one based entirely on a delusion, cannot have a profound effect on the believer. Just as many believers have harnessed their belief to be profoundly barbaric and immoral, what does this tell us about the belief, and try not to use a no true Scotsman fallacy.

Which way characterizes your life, A or B?
“I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

A. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

B. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Which way characterizes your life, A or B?
“I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

A. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

B. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-23‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Yeah, that is your belief, not mine.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Yeah, that is your belief, not mine.

What do you mean? This is how you test the fruit in someone’s life, even your own. If I say I’m a believer and my life is full of the activities listed in A. Even you would say no way.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It wasn't just accepted by religion but by most everyone at the time.

That doesn't make it science as we know it.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What do you mean? This is how you test the fruit in someone’s life, even your own. If I say I’m a believer and my life is full of the activities listed in A. Even you would say no way.

You evaluate differently than me based on your beliefs about the purpose with life.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Just how many times do you need to be told this is not true? None of the gospels are contemporary accounts, the authorship of Mathew Mark Luke and John are fictitious. The earliest written records are decades after the alleged events, so no they are not by definition "first hand accounts". Paul neither met nor even knew Jesus.

Paul did meet Jesus on the road to Damascus, that was first hand. His life was changed after that just like with everyone who meets Jesus.

 

[Polymath257]

We all perceive the sun using our senses. You don't know the sun even exists, you only know what you perceive and have been told about it.

If you don't know that the sun exists, then you aren't using the same definition of 'exists' as I do.

If you give evidence for a God that is anywhere close to being as detailed and repeatable as what there is for the sun, the debate about the existence of God would be immediately over.

For that matter, if you could give evidence that is as strong as the evidence of dark matter, the existence of God would be taken seriously by all skeptics.

If you could give evidence as strong as that for evolution, there would be no debate left.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You evaluate differently than me based on your beliefs about the purpose with life.

How do you evaluate?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

How do you evaluate?

What works for me made not be same for you in all cases. I am a cognitive, moral and cultural relativist.

 

[Polymath257]

Well their first hand accounts and the message of the Gospel actually does happen to a person when they receive Eternal Life through Jesus Christ. If I didn’t I wouldn’t be saying it did, I’d still be a drug addict, be dead, in jail or some institution. But what happened is that I was born again and that is no pipe dream, myth or fantasy.

So the accounts you pointed to: those in the Gospels, are not actually first hand accounts. You have a *story* that there were hundreds of eye-witnesses, but no actual eye-witness accounts.

Again, with no *independent* evidence from those that are *skeptical*, there is only anecdotal evidence, even from those today.

When double blind studies have been done, the efficacy of prayer has been shown to be null if the recipient knows nothing about the prayer. For those that do, it is actually *worse* (because they think their condition is worse).

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.”
‭‭I John‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Yes, and you see that is all evangelical religions. That doesn't make it true.

The question is how to determine the truth when those who believe a certain way are so faith-addled that their statements can't be trusted.

 

[Polymath257]

Paul did meet Jesus on the road to Damascus, that was first hand. His life was changed after that just like with everyone who meets Jesus.

That was the story. it was probably just an epileptic seizure. oh, did his companions see Jesus or not? The answer depends on which telling of the story you read. So even Paul couldn't get his facts straight.

 

[Sheldon]

I would say that Harry Potter is a satanic seminar

Thanks for the heads up, but by your rationale it'd also be evidence for wizardry. FWIW it's fiction, like most of the bible, and all of the unevidenced biblical claims for magic. Though the Harry Potter stuff is pretty innocuous though, unlike the bible.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...

The question is how to determine the truth when those who believe a certain way are so faith-addled that their statements can't be trusted.

That is not unique to standard religions. It happens when someone confuses subjective, inter-subjective and objective.

 

[Sheldon]

Which way characterizes your life, A or B?

Neither, it's just a false dichotomy fallacy you've created.