There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Wildswanderer]

It explains why water boils at different temperatures according to atmospheric pressure.

It explains why the proliferations of species and genetic diversity exist.

Science explains why bodies and planets are attracted to each other, and consequently why they sometimes orbit each other.

I suspect ignorance of science, and a desire to ringfence superstitious beliefs from scrutiny, are at play here.

Those are still just how things function. Not why they exist or why they have to function as they do.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nope, only on how things work, not why the laws of the universe even exist.

Not totally true. We understand some of the laws, but then people ignore them. Keppler's Law is the first such example that I can think of that was explained. But you re right that many laws are not fully understood yet. Guess what happens in the sciences when questions are answered? New questions often arise. There will probably always be unanswered questions in science. That is what makes it interesting. Meanwhile there are no explanations from theism, only claims. I prefer at least some explanations to none.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You don't understand. Those are still " how" questions. All it answers is how things function. It doesn't answer why they should even exist or why laws of science exist. Why is there order instead of chaos? Why do we desire God?

No, those are why questions. And they have been answered. But like I just pointed out, New knowledge raises new questions. What is wrong with that? Some answers are better than none.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Our faith answers all the questions of the soul.

Yes, but how do you know if those "answers" are correct? When your religion and another religion disagree how do you determine who is right?

 

[Subduction Zone]

How is that evidence against the Bible?

What? Your question makes no sense. Are you trying to treat the Bible as one generic whole? If you are making that error then the Bible has been refuted already and there is no need to discuss the Exodus.

But before I answer you when, according to the Bible, did the Exodus happen?

 

[Wildswanderer]

I consult God or the book I believe to be his words. And yes, there's faith involved, similar to the way the atheist has faith that evolution has the explanation for all life when he knows full well that it has huge gaps in it. What we can't know by experience we accept by faith.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Not totally true. We understand some of the laws, but then people ignore them. Keppler's Law is the first such example that I can think of that was explained. But you re right that many laws are not fully understood yet. Guess what happens in the sciences when questions are answered? New questions often arise. There will probably always be unanswered questions in science. That is what makes it interesting. Meanwhile there are no explanations from theism, only claims. I prefer at least some explanations to none.

I don't care if the laws are explained. That still doesn't tell us why there are laws.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't care if the laws are explained. That still doesn't tell us why there are laws.

You will never find the answer with "faith". That is not a pathway to the truth. So your objections do not appear to have much in the way of merit.

 

[Polymath257]

You don't understand. Those are still " how" questions. All it answers is how things function. It doesn't answer why they should even exist or why laws of science exist. Why is there order instead of chaos? Why do we desire God?

I disagree. They are 'why' questions and they get answers from science.

Why is TNT explosive? because of the instability of the bonds in the molecule. That is an answer to 'why'.

Yes, it answers how things function. That *is* an answer to 'why' things do what they do.

Now, you want answers to why anything at all exists. Sorry, that isn't a question that *can* be answered. But *you* can't answer it either.

For me, the question of why the universe exists cannot be answered. It just exists. For you, the question of why God exists cannot be answered. He just exists. But I know the universe exists and you can't prove God does.

The laws of physics exist because things in the universe have properties. Why do they have properties? That cannot be answered: no cause can be given because the action of a cause is the same as a property.

As for why you 'desire God', I would guess it is because of your upbringing.

 

[Polymath257]

I don't care if the laws are explained. That still doesn't tell us why there are laws.

You are right. There is no way to answer 'why does something exist as opposed to nothing'. That is literally an unanswerable question.

But you can't answer it either: you cannot say why God exists. I cannot say why the universe exists. In both scenarios, there is something that is without cause. My system just has the universe with that property as opposed to God. But at least we know the universe exists.

 

[Polymath257]

Our faith answers all the questions of the soul.

No, faith just stops people from asking further. it gives no answers; just eliminates the questions.

 

[dybmh]

It is easy to believe that Einstein believed in God when you only read cherry picked sources.

it's easy to claim cherry picking without providing any quotes of your own.

 

[ElishaElijah]

As you say, "If you’re doing well already, why would you need something to make you feel better?"

Well yeah even Jesus said that:
“When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2:17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
I was sick and Jesus healed me, I repented, received forgiveness, a better way to live and Eternal Life.

 

[Subduction Zone]

it's easy to claim cherry picking without providing any quotes of your own.

I have. Why do I need to continually do so?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Now why would you think that God did that? Did it only rain on your lawn and not on the lawn of another Christian nearby that need a dry one for an outdoor celebration? Now that would have been evidence of God if only your lawn got wet and no one else's did. This is what I meant by weak and facile explanations.

Sidenote, during my college years I was a sodbuster one summer. I worked at a place where we would cut sod and lay it all in the same day. Though instead of rolling it we would fold it a bit. We would flip each end over so it went about a foot towards the other one and pick it up and put it n a pallet. After about five layers we would have to correct for the dip in the middle. But there was a system and we would end up with nice five to six foot cubes of sod. When we laid it the fact that it was folded allowed us to throw it in such a fashion that it opened up in the air. And a quick tug and shove from on top made sure that it was in place. It allowed for very fast sodding. And massively sore forearms for the first week.

It was an analogy where God does the work and it’s takes no effort on my part just like the rain watering the grass. If I had to water the grass it would take my effort but you get similar results although this rain watered the whole lawn while I watched.
Had no idea you put down sod, what else did you do? Probably a lot of cool things we could learn about people and what they’ve been through in life. To me that is interesting.

 

[dybmh]

I have. Why do I need to continually do so?

because the quotes showing Einstein as a panentheist are more convincing

 

[Subduction Zone]

@dybmh here is a nice ripe cherry for you:

"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist." Albert Einstein.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It was an analogy where God does the work and it’s takes no effort on my part just like the rain watering the grass. If I had to water the grass it would take my effort but you get similar results although this rain watered the whole lawn while I watched.
Had no idea you put down sod, what else did you do? Probably a lot of cool things we could learn about people and what they’ve been through in life. To me that is interesting.

But it is wrong to attribute that to God if you do not attribute a flood that wipes out an orphanage to God. You are cherry picking events that match your beliefs. They really do not prove anything. Nor does God in reality do "the work". We know how rain works, well some of us do.

Here is your chance to learn or demonstrate knowledge:

How does damp wet air rise? How do we get water that is much heavier than air way up high into the clouds?

 

[dybmh]

@dybmh here is a nice ripe cherry for you:

"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist." Albert Einstein.

In an interview published by the German poet George Sylvester Viereck, Einstein stated, "I am not an Atheist." According to Prince Hubertus, Einstein said, "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."

 

[Subduction Zone]

In an interview published by the German poet George Sylvester Viereck, Einstein stated, "I am not an Atheist." According to Prince Hubertus, Einstein said, "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."

Yes, if one quotes out of context one can get a person to say almost anything. By the way, do you understand that in your second quote Einstein in no way was endorsing the existence of God? You appear to be reading more into that quote than exists.

EDIT: I found your source for that:

Religious and philosophical views of Albert Einstein - Wikipedia

Einstein repeatedly said that he was an agnostic. Now you may not understand that definitions of words do change over time. Almost all agnostics are atheists. When Einstein said that he believe is in Spinoza's God that is merely admiring the entirety of the Cosmos. It is not a God in the sense of that of any worshipper.

Do you understand that most agnostics are atheists?