"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

[Magic Man]

Ok, I object to Dawkin's definition because being called delusional is INHERENTLY insulting.

...and because it is inaccurate, I'm assuming.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Why? The Jews were a tribe just like other ethnicities. People descended from them are then referred to by that name, just like other ethnicities. I'm half Polish. Have I ever been to Poland? No, but I am descended from Polish people.

The Israeli people originated from the people of Canaan.

Canaan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ok, I object to Dawkin's definition because being called delusional is INHERENTLY insulting.

So now please explain the relevance to the argument at hand.

The word "delusion" has inherent connotations and implications, regardless of how it's re-defined for the purposes of a discussion. So does the word "religion". Every word comes with its own baggage.

 

[Willamena]

Also note that lilithu's definition is relegated to the category of the "other definitions picked up through random surfing of the Internet". I wouldn't consider this to be indicative of it being a generally accepted definition.

Since she's studied in Taoism and Buddhism, I'd tend to doubt that.


"The (spiritually) noble man is one who has labored at the alchemy of fusing social forms (li) and raw personal experience in such a way that they transmuted into a way of being which realizes te, the distinctively human virtue of power." (the religion of Confucianism)

Common definition of religion? Was once.

 

[Magic Man]

The Israeli people originated from the people of Canaan.

Canaan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And Polish people originated from tribes that weren't called Pollocks or Polish, yet we still call that ethnic group Polish today.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

And Polish people originated from tribes that weren't called Pollocks or Polish, yet we still call that ethnic group Polish today.

So are you 100% Polish and if not what caused that? Intermarriage in the Israeli people is the reason we are having this discussion. Judaism is a covenant not a bloodline.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Since she's studied in Taoism and Buddhism, I'd tend to doubt that.

I was quoting the page that Jay linked to verbatim. The definition she's been using, which she attributed to Tillich, was relegated to a brief mention at the bottom of the page that was the summary of an apparently earnest attempt to gauge the state of practice when it comes to what the word "religion" means.

Even religioustolerance.org gives her definition only the most peripheral of status and notes several definitions that have much greater acceptance that are incompatible with it, yet she apparently wants us to accept it without question.

 

[lilithu]

He doesn't mean it to be insulting. He is using a definition of "delusion" that is technically correct as far as his position is concerned. It's up to theists whether they choose to be insulted by it. In other words, it's only the popular conception and associated connotations of the word "delusion" that makes theists object to the word, although the word is technically correct if defined as "[SIZE=-1](psychology) an erroneous belief that is held in the face of evidence to the contrary". [/SIZE]

Right, because what constitutes "erroneous belief" is so objectively obvious. :areyoucra

I do find it hilarious tho, that you will support this definition yet resort to insults over the definition of religion that I presented.

 

[Willamena]

I was quoting the page that Jay linked to verbatim. The definition she's been using, which she attributed to Tillich, was relegated to a brief mention at the bottom of the page that was the summary of an apparently earnest attempt to gauge the state of practice when it comes to what the word "religion" means.

Even religioustolerance.org gives her definition only the most peripheral of status and notes several definitions that have much greater acceptance that are incompatible with it, yet she apparently wants us to accept it without question.

Alright.

I suspect she'd be far happier if it was questioned; rather, it's been summarily rejected.

 

[Alceste]

Right, because what constitutes "erroneous belief" is so objectively obvious. :areyoucra

The fact that religion is fraught with erroneous beliefs is certainly obvious to people who are not religious. (BTW, there was a whole other half to that definition that pertains to the issue of "objectivity").

I do find it hilarious tho, that you will support this definition yet resort to insults over the definition of religion that I presented.

You interpret disagreement as "insults"? How "telling."

 

[lilithu]

Since she's studied in Taoism and Buddhism, I'd tend to doubt that.


"The (spiritually) noble man is one who has labored at the alchemy of fusing social forms (li) and raw personal experience in such a way that they transmuted into a way of being which realizes te, the distinctively human virtue of power." (the religion of Confucianism)

Common definition of religion? Was once.

Those were the days.

I didn't get the definition from Confucianism and Taoism, altho I agree with you that they would agree. As I'm sure you know, Eastern thought traditionally does not make a distinction between "philosophy" and "religion." There was simply "a way of life." I I got Tillich's definition from Western religious existentialism. (but you already know that )

 

[Magic Man]

So are you 100% Polish and if not what caused that? Intermarriage in the Israeli people is the reason we are having this discussion. Judaism is a covenant not a bloodline.

Judaism is a religion. Being Jewish is an ethnicity. I don't really understand your question or your second sentence. I'm not 100% Polish because only my dad's side of the family came from Polish roots. What does that have to do with anything? Someone who is born of an Irish father and Jewish mother is 50% Jewish, just as I am 50% Polish.

 

[Willamena]

Those were the days.

I didn't get the definition from Confucianism and Taoism, altho I agree with you that they would agree. As I'm sure you know, Eastern thought traditionally does not make a distinction between "philosophy" and "religion." There was simply "a way of life." I I got Tillich's definition from Western religious existentialism. (but you already know that )

Ah, I see the ambiguity of my post now. No matter.

 

[lilithu]

The word "delusion" has inherent connotations and implications, regardless of how it's re-defined for the purposes of a discussion. So does the word "religion". Every word comes with its own baggage.

Oh I agree that all words have inherent connotations and implications. The question here is whether the word religion has inherent negative connotations and implications. I would argue that "delusional" does.

 

[Storm]

I do find it hilarious tho, that you will support this definition yet resort to insults over the definition of religion that I presented.

She clearly stated that she doesn't support it. I suspect she was just pointing out your hypocrisy.

Has it ever occured to you that you're being treated rudely because that's how you're treating others?

 

[Willamena]

The fact that religion is fraught with erroneous beliefs is certainly obvious to people who are not religious.

It's also obvious to people who are not familiar with them.

 

[Alceste]

Alright.

I suspect she'd be far happier if it was questioned; rather, it's been summarily rejected.

I suspect she would also be far happier if she'd questioned it herself, rather than insisting despite the fact that a number of non-religious folks didn't give it any serious consideration. (Because it's obviously wrong).

 

[Magic Man]

Alright.

I suspect she'd be far happier if it was questioned; rather, it's been summarily rejected.

Would you question the assertion "All black people are stupid", or would you just summarily reject it?

(I'm not saying she did something this bad. I'm just using the analogy to point out that sometimes it only makes sense to reject something outright.)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Oh I agree that all words have inherent connotations and implications. The question here is whether the word religion has inherent negative connotations and implications. I would argue that "delusional" does.

If a Russian agreed that the word "American" didn't have any inherent negative connotations or implications, would it be appropriate to call him an American?

 

[lilithu]

The fact that religion is fraught with erroneous beliefs is certainly obvious to people who are not religious

And there we have it. Finally, a little honesty.

You interpret disagreement as "insults"? How "telling."

This is how you behave when merely disagreeing? How telling.