"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

[doppelganger]

Now, tell me, Whom do you attribute the intellectual crative power of Philosophers,
as well as their restlessness to "become?"

Ben

To whom? I'm not sure I can make sense of that question. Are you asking me for the cause of apparently creative impulse?

 

[doppelganger]

If the latter, I'll give you what I consider Nietzsche's best answer, with which I largely agree. From Book III of Will to Power:

Critique of "reality": where does the "more or less real," the gradation of being in which we believe, lead to?--

The degree to which we feel life and power (logic and coherence of experience) gives us our measure of "being", "reality", not appearance.

The subject: this is the term for our belief in a unity underlying all the different impulses of the highest feeling of reality: we understand this belief as the effect of one cause--we believe so firmly in our belief that for its sake we imagine "truth", "reality", substantiality in general.-- "The subject" is the fiction that many similar states in us are the effect of one substratum: but it is we who first created the "similarity" of these states; our adjusting them and making them similar is the fact, not their similarity (--which ought rather to be denied--).

One would have to know what being is, in order to decide whether this or that is real (e.g., "the facts of consciousness"); in the same way, what certainty is, what knowledge is, and the like.-- But since we do not know this, a critique of the faculty of knowledge is senseless: how should a tool be able to criticize itself when it can use only itself for the critique? It cannot even define itself!

 

[Ben Masada]

To whom? I'm not sure I can make sense of that question. Are you asking me for the cause of apparently creative impulse?

Okay, so to what kind of thing or emanation, or muse, or whatever you attribute... yes, their special creative impulse? There must be something in there
somewhere in the mind of Philosophers that make them so peculiar and discarded from reality. I mean, the reality of things that keep us alive, not the reality
of the things we live for. In reading the life for instance of one I consider the greatest of Philosophers, Baruch de Spinoza. I am impressed for the almost absolute
abnegation Philosophers are gifted with. Well, I think you have got the idea by now.

Ben

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Thus, I could get behind this campaign if it showed atheist women in bikinis or wet T-shirts.

I too would be willing to get behind women in bikinis or wet T-shirts.

 

[doppelganger]

Okay, so to what kind of thing or emanation, or muse, or whatever to you attribute... yes, their specail creative impulse? There must be something in there

Perhaps their gift for being able to embrace uncertainty, and be aware of the operation of perspective that allows them to work in the realm of meta-language.

 

[Ben Masada]

God is rather an added reason why I enjoy my life.

Ben

 

[doppelganger]

God is rather an added reason why I enjoy my life.

Ben

How so? Can you elaborate on how you feel "God" adds to your enjoyment of life?

 

[Ben Masada]

Perhaps their gift for being able to embrace uncertainty, and be aware of the operation of perspective that allows them to work in the realm of meta-language.

Yes, the ability to work in the realm of meta-language. They are indeed able of that
much. But the uncertainty albeit embraced with resignation, is too painful and causes them a lot of suffering as even to forget themselves in existence.

Ben

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I wonder if the sign makers are not merely being ironic.

After all, this is in response to theistic adverts warning passengers that they were damned unless they embrace theism - these (atheist) adverts are nowhere near as obscene in nature, so perhaps they are only attempting to make a point, rather than actually hoping for de-conversions.

I didn't realize that these ads were in response to ads promising people will be "damned" if they don't embrace God. That does enhance my opinion of the ads. Like you said they are ironic and humorous in that context.

I am not offended if someone tells me they don't believe in God and why. What bothers me is if someone tell me I can't believe in God because they don't. That same person would be angry if I told him/her that he/she have to believe in God because I do.

That's perfectly understandable Christine, but who exactly is telling you that? I'd like to know so I can distance myself from him/her/them.

 

[doppelganger]

But the uncertainty albeit embraced with resignation, is too painful and causes them a lot of suffering as even to forget themselves in existence.

Ben

That's the Dark Night of the Soul - passive nihilism. Don't confuse it for the end of the journey. The great philosophers move on from there.

From Thus Spake Zarathustra:

THREE metamorphoses of the spirit do I designate to you: how the spirit becometh a camel, the camel a lion, and the lion at last a child.
Many heavy things are there for the spirit, the strong load-bearing spirit in which reverence dwelleth: for the heavy and the heaviest longeth its strength.
What is heavy? so asketh the load-bearing spirit; then kneeleth it down like the camel, and wanteth to be well laden.
What is the heaviest thing, ye heroes? asketh the load-bearing spirit, that I may take it upon me and rejoice in my strength.
Is it not this: To humiliate oneself in order to mortify one's pride? To exhibit one's folly in order to mock at one's wisdom?
Or is it this: To desert our cause when it celebrateth its triumph? To ascend high mountains to tempt the tempter?
Or is it this: To feed on the acorns and grass of knowledge, and for the sake of truth to suffer hunger of soul?
Or is it this: To be sick and dismiss comforters, and make friends of the deaf, who never hear thy requests?
Or is it this: To go into foul water when it is the water of truth, and not disclaim cold frogs and hot toads?
Or is it this: To love those who despise us, and give one's hand to the phantom when it is going to frighten us?
All these heaviest things the load-bearing spirit taketh upon itself: and like the camel, which, when laden, hasteneth into the wilderness, so hasteneth the spirit into its wilderness.
But in the loneliest wilderness happeneth the second metamorphosis: here the spirit becometh a lion; freedom will it capture, and lordship in its own wilderness.
Its last Lord it here seeketh: hostile will it be to him, and to its last God; for victory will it struggle with the great dragon.
What is the great dragon which the spirit is no longer inclined to call Lord and God? "Thou shalt," is the great dragon called. But the spirit of the lion saith, "I will."
"Thou shalt," lieth in its path, sparkling with gold—a scale-covered beast; and on every scale glittereth golden, "Thou shalt!"
The values of a thousand years glitter on those scales, and thus speaketh the mightiest of all dragons: "All the values of things—glitter on me.
All values have already been created, and all created values—do I represent. Verily, there shall be no 'I will' any more. Thus speaketh the dragon.
My brethren, wherefore is there need of the lion in the spirit? Why sufficeth not the beast of burden, which renounceth and is reverent?
To create new values—that, even the lion cannot yet accomplish: but to create itself freedom for new creating—that can the might of the lion do.
To create itself freedom, and give a holy Nay even unto duty: for that, my brethren, there is need of the lion.
To assume the ride to new values—that is the most formidable assumption for a load-bearing and reverent spirit. Verily, unto such a spirit it is preying, and the work of a beast of prey.
As its holiest, it once loved "Thou shalt": now is it forced to find illusion and arbitrariness even in the holiest things, that it may capture freedom from its love: the lion is needed for this capture.
But tell me, my brethren, what the child can do, which even the lion could not do? Why hath the preying lion still to become a child?
Innocence is the child, and forgetfulness, a new beginning, a game, a self-rolling wheel, a first movement, a holy Yea.
Aye, for the game of creating, my brethren, there is needed a holy Yea unto life: its own will, willeth now the spirit; his own world winneth the world's outcast.
Three metamorphoses of the spirit have I designated to you: how the spirit became a camel, the camel a lion, and the lion at last a child.—

 

[Ben Masada]

How so? Can you elaborate on how you feel "God" adds to your enjoyment of life?

That's the point in question. I like to entertain the thought that as long as "He" is on the driving seat of our journey, so to speak, a lot of the pains of uncertainties
are minimized. Something beyond the neurons of my mind seems to interfere with the regulation of my moments of joy, especially when I assign time to it.

Ben

 

[doppelganger]

That's the point in question. I like to entertain the thought that as long as "He" is on the driving seat of our journey, so to speak, a lot of the pains of uncertainties
are minimized.

But the forms in which you place your certainty are there precisely because someone before you embraced uncertainty to express them in that form for the first time. You came along and found what a person had created and "believed in" it, and it makes you feel better. But the person who created it, they didn't "believe" in anything. If they had, you wouldn't have their work product to comfort your fears with.

Something beyond the neurons of my mind seems to interfere with the regulation of my moments of joy, especially when I assign time to it.

Ben

But of course. Subconscious aesthetics that even if you look for them your whole life, you'll never even begin to fully appreciate what role they play in the thoughts you have.

 

[YmirGF]

We should have segregated busing for athiests(non-theists) and theists.

Hehe. Yeah, they could label them as Smoking and Non-Smoking seats.

 

[fantome profane]

It's stupid. The only people who like that kind of ad are the ones who are opposed to organized religion and thus would not join us anyway.

We spend all of our time telling others how we're not Christian, as opposed to telling them what we ARE.

Edit:
For those who are just joining us, I was referring to a UU ad, not the atheist ad, which I think is stupid for different reasons.

I see your point. I still think it is a brilliant idea very cleverly expressed, things like this are the reason I like the Unitarians. But you are correct that it does appeal to people like me and although I would not describe myself as being “opposed to organized religion”, I am personally not interested in joining one. So you are probably right that it is not likely to bring anyone into the UU. If that is the intention of the ad, then it is not a good ad.

But it is still a brilliant idea. I really do think that people should set aside 5 or 10 minutes each day to doubt. If people were to spend that time really doubting their most fundamental beliefs, I think this world would be a much better place.

 

[Ben Masada]

But the forms in which you place your certainty are there precisely because someone before you embraced uncertainty to express them in that form for the first time. You came along and found what a person had created and "believed in" it, and it makes you feel better. But the person who created it, they didn't "believe" in anything. If they had, you wouldn't have their work product to comfort your fears with.



But of course. Subconscious aesthetics that even if you look for them your whole life, you'll never even begin to fully appreciate what role they play in the thoughts you have.

I am not concerned about my certainties. They are part of the material I build the things that keep me alive.
The uncertainties are the things I live for and cause me pains and joy. And regardless of your struggle to detatch it from being out there,
the emanation is almost mystical and sometimes more than only in the mind.


I can't help detacting something strange in you method to discuss this topic under the pseudonym of a Philosopher.
Tell me Doppelganger, are you an Atheist camouflaged as a Philosopher to easy your way through? You are too fast to discard
any resemblance of the possibility of an outside cause to inspire the Philosopher's search for meaning.
If my suspictions are unfounded, could it be perhaps fear to venture our of yourself? What could it be?

Ben

 

[kai]

well at the end of the day ,you pay ,you get to advertise ,if its good enough for burger king its good enough for atheists. whats the matter theists afraid of the competition?

 

[Sententia]

well at the end of the day ,you pay ,you get to advertise ,if its good enough for burger king its good enough for atheists. whats the matter theists afraid of the competition?

Agreed. People should know that its ok and that many atheists exist and its ok if they dont buy this bs... Kids espcially should know that there are many other belief systems out there. I think we should stop raising scared kids who believe in invisible gods or in gods that exist only in their mind and in the mind of their parents...

A judging god who sees all.... blah...

 

[zenzero]

Friend 9-10th Penguin,

"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

Could be true!
However, it is not that simple because the question arises out of the mind in the form of THOUGHTS.
Thoughts can never be driven away even by god as probably the idea of THOUGHTS was originated by HIM itself.
So, one has to STILL the mind to get the THOUGHTS to remain silent and live that peaceful life/ worry free life.
The only way of that is MEDITATION.
Logically the statement is:
*MEDIATE AND SEE YOUR WORRIES VANISH*
Love & rgds

 

[emiliano]

Campaigners believe the messages will provide a "reassuring" antidote to religious adverts that "threaten eternal damnation" to passengers.

What can anybody say, the United Kingdom is a democracy and Mr. Dawkins can do with his money whatever he wants, that he think that he will help people that he believe to be religious out of fear of hell, is doubtfully his motive for the sponsorship. But that is his prerogative, the slogan bother me though, because it assumes that religious people are unhappy people. I think that this man the son of a religion minister suffered or saw something in his life that scared him for life, we Christian inadvertently damage people most of time out of our excessive zeal. Anyhow does anybody here knows how Dawkins campaign against God is going? Have the sells of his books increased?

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Somehow i get the impression that atheists think people who are religious and to be more precise, Jewish, Christian and Muslim, are delusional and paranoid. The problem only exists when people in their religion's name, force false ideas, selfish actions and hostility. These people will commit these acts of atrocity while entertaining the notion they are representing God's good will.

In the Christian model, Jesus explains that such actions are fruitless and even hinder the good news he was preaching. The example of tolerance, self control and love are to be observed by non believers with the hope that through our actions and faith, others will embrace Christ's example.

When I look at good parents and see the love, devotion and the unwavering protection they give to their children, I see God. It also reminds me that although we endure tragedy in this life time, God has a plan to end all suffering in the life to come and yes, there will be justice for those who willfully commit ungodly acts. Like a parent who puts themselves in harms way to protect their children, so did Jesus for His little ones. I can only hope that others revere all people as Jesus' little ones and choose to live this life at peace with each other. If they choose to violate, they will receive what they sow.