They're everywhere! Cardero's excellent evidence ...

[angellous_evangellous]

I still find it odd that you can't see how it would be insulting, though.

If it makes you feel better, I did edit out the comment before you had finished typing your response to it. I'm not sure that you noticed that...

 

[YmirGF]

If it makes you feel better, I did edit out the comment before you had finished typing your response to it. I'm not sure that you noticed that...

I guess what I find difficult about threads like this is that are an insult to my intelligence... and I am not even highly educated, lol. It also bothers me how others feel a deep-seated need to believe in this abject drivel -- err, "evidence". That is disquieting, to say the least.

In my view, the danger of believing in stuff like this is that it tends to have a cumulative effect on the believer. Healthy skepticism gives way to open belief which then can turn into unquestioning belief, leaving one at the threshold of fanaticism. Once that door is opened then the believer has the very real possibility of dangling from the edge of sanity, while precipitating their own seemingly "real" encounters.

I dunno, to this unsophisticated rube, it just feels "wrong" and I am left questioning the motives of those who continue to perpetuate these modern myths. :thud:

 

[Gentoo]

***MOD POST***

Alright folks, I'm re-opening this thread.
Let's stay civil and on topic.
​

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I guess what I find difficult about threads like this is that are an insult to my intelligence... and I am not even highly educated, lol. It also bothers me how others feel a deep-seated need to believe in this abject drivel -- err, "evidence". That is disquieting, to say the least.

I dunno, man. As mball points out (I think), not everyone "believes in aliens" for the same reasons. I remember when I was a young lad, reading all sorts of paranormal stuff, accepting as evidence stuff that was about the level of the material presented here... back when I thought that it was cool that the authors were doing rogue science, considered fools by everyone else.

In my view, the danger of believing in stuff like this is that it tends to have a cumulative effect on the believer. Healthy skepticism gives way to open belief which then can turn into unquestioning belief, leaving one at the threshold of fanaticism. Once that door is opened then the believer has the very real possibility of dangling from the edge of sanity, while precipitating their own seemingly "real" encounters.

It has been my experience that someone has a very low standard for their evidence has never been a skeptic.

I dunno, to this unsophisticated rube, it just feels "wrong" and I am left questioning the motives of those who continue to perpetuate these modern myths. :thud:

Perhaps the same as everyone else. Some are power-hungry, some just want to make a living, some are psychotic, some are liars, some are fools, and some are believers.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Some are power-hungry, some just want to make a living, some are psychotic, some are liars, some are fools, and some are believers.

Republicans ...

 

[Phasmid]

What I don't understand is why aliens would abduct farmers in the middle of nowhere, rather than world leaders. I also don't understand how a race of beings advanced enough to traverse the vastness of space, would screw up on so many of their abductions. I mean they could hide their supposed implants more thoroughly, or wipe the memory of the abductee a little more cleanly, surely?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I mean they could hide their supposed implants more thoroughly, or wipe the memory of the abductee a little more cleanly, surely?

Never, never underestimate the ingenuity of American Podiatry!

 

[Phasmid]

Who's American Podiatry?

 

[Nessa]

What I don't understand is why aliens would abduct farmers in the middle of nowhere, rather than world leaders. I also don't understand how a race of beings advanced enough to traverse the vastness of space, would screw up on so many of their abductions. I mean they could hide their supposed implants more thoroughly, or wipe the memory of the abductee a little more cleanly, surely?

To expound on your post, the supposed implants inferred in this thread could be anything from a rock to an ore. What would be a scientific reason to implant such a substance?.

 

[cardero]

Angellous writes: I dunno, man. As mball points out (I think), not everyone "believes in aliens" for the same reasons. I remember when I was a young lad, reading all sorts of paranormal stuff, accepting as evidence stuff that was about the level of the material presented here... back when I thought that it was cool that the authors were doing rogue science, considered fools by everyone else.

Most of the researchers usually do not have an agenda or a preference to the things that they are learning or documenting. Others will tell you that they wish that the data that has been accumulated is not true.. but it is still evidence and the phenomenon seems to corroborate itself at every turn. The UFO phenomenon is not one perspective, it is not about reviewing just a single piece of data, the UFO phenomenon is an intricate puzzle in which one must familiarize themselves with all the pieces to try to come to an understanding of it.

Angellous writes: It has been my experience that someone has a very low standard for their evidence has never been a skeptic.

My experience with skeptics is that some have a misunderstanding of what it means to believe and have very high standards that they set for themselves. The one thing that clearly stands out with the UFO debunker is that they never put in the same effort, the same time, the same research, the same understanding as a UFO believer and investigator.

Angellous writes: Perhaps the same as everyone else. Some are power-hungry, some just want to make a living, some are psychotic, some are liars, some are fools, and some are believers.

This is true.

 

[cardero]

To expound on your post, the supposed implants inferred in this thread could be anything from a rock to an ore. What would be a scientific reason to implant such a substance?.

The researchers are not sure of the purpose or make-up of the implant but a more important question that was mentioned was why the body didn’t reject such a material which leads some investigators to the scientific possibility of our own further understanding of medical implants.

An example of this type of misunderstanding can be referrenced by the infamous Betty and Barney Hill case.

On September 19th, 1961 Betty and Barney Hill claimed they were abducted by aliens and subjected to a series of medical tests.

From Wikipedia:
He (the alien) took out a hypodermic needle some four to six inches long to conduct what he said was a pregnancy exam. He used a wet swab on her navel. He thrust the needle into it, which caused Betty agonizing pain, but the doctor rubbed her forehead and the pain vanished.

Betty exclaimed that this was no pregnancy test that she was familiar with. Under hypnosis she related this procedure. This in itself might not seem like evidence but years later our own medical science had adopted the same practice for testing pregnant women that Betty Hill experienced aboard the alien craft. The evidence now seems to have corroborated itself and lends a little more credibly to Betty Hill’s experience.

 

[cardero]

What I don't understand is why aliens would abduct farmers in the middle of nowhere, rather than world leaders. I also don't understand how a race of beings advanced enough to traverse the vastness of space, would screw up on so many of their abductions. I mean they could hide their supposed implants more thoroughly, or wipe the memory of the abductee a little more cleanly, surely?

Our government was probably expressing the same concern. One of the theories of the UFO phenomenon is that the aliens entered into a relationship with our government to covertly allow aliens to abduct certain citizens for the exchange of alien technology. The relationship went bad when the government learned that the aliens were abducting more people than the government had assigned and that the alien attempts were becoming sloppy and careless.


It is important to remember that these BEings are not perfect and there is probably alot about human's intents and purposes that they a hard time monitering or understanding. The current understanding in some circles of research is that they do not care if we know about their activities or not. They have already proven that they can take us whenever and wherever they want to. Another theory is that this is a way to indoctrinate us about their existence.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It is important to remember that these BEings are not perfect ...

That's always at the top of my list of things to keep in mind. :yes:

 

[Troublemane]

What I don't understand is why aliens would abduct farmers in the middle of nowhere, rather than world leaders. I also don't understand how a race of beings advanced enough to traverse the vastness of space, would screw up on so many of their abductions. I mean they could hide their supposed implants more thoroughly, or wipe the memory of the abductee a little more cleanly, surely?

Clearly they prefer to prey on the isolated and defenseless. I dont think they can wipe memory so well, it may be that the abductees are merely placed in a kind of stupor while being abducted so that they remember nothing clearly, not that they have their memory erased. Then again, i cant be sure. they may have erased that part of my knowledge j/k

Anyhoo, just as a logical observation here (not that i have personal experience with this, just saying...), I think it makes perfect sense to abduct people in remote areas and to stay away from heavily populated zones. The less witnesses the better. Plus i think I read somewhere in the UFO literature, a theory there was some kind of treaty between us and "them", that they're not supposed to abduct anyone important. :angel2:

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

They would save considerable time abducting podiatrists.

 

[cardero]

They would save considerable time abducting podiatrists.

Or UFO skeptics and debunkers. Not only would the aliens have to worry about them remembering it, they wouldn't have to worry about them believing it or taking it seriously.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Or UFO skeptics and debunkers. Not only would the aliens have to worry about them remembering it, they wouldn't have to worry about them believing it or taking it seriously.

That could help the cause of "believers", if the skeptics survive and care to share their stories.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

..., they wouldn't have to worry about them believing it or taking it seriously.

True. From what I've seen, there is certainly no chance of that happening.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Now, I'm of course interested in the stories of people who have seen UFO phenomenon and have claimed abductions, and partially because of my own experience as stated above. The hard part is taking these experiences and turning them over to any means of being peer-reviewed, tested, and therefore validated by the scientific community.

Which is why such things are so frustrating for those who have the experiences, or want to study such phenomena.

Things such as alien implants and abductions are certainly scientifically verifiable and testable. But without people in the scientific community taking it seriously, or the right people in the community taking it seriously, it won't be positively peer-reviewed or validated.

So what's a curious person to do?

There's evidence out there; Cardero's links prove that. It's on Youtube? I'm sure the moon landing is as well. Video and photographic evidence can be faked easily, sure, but so can peer-reviewed articles in AAAS' Science journal.

Simply dismissing "paranormal" phenomena as garbage is fine if that's all that a person can see it as, but there are legitimate reasons for looking into the evidence presented, and it certainly isn't garbage to everyone.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

So what's a curious person to do?

Just a hunch, but it seems that "paranormal" pretty much means "para-science," which indicates that the scope of review is scientifically untestable to begin with.