This might be stupid but...

[Renji]

Don't worry dudes. He'll learn even without spending his life on jail. I promise. My plans never fail.

 

[Badran]

As you all know, I am a hit and run victim, got hospitalized and the univ have to make me stop my studies in the middle of this sem (which makes me very sad). Anyway guys, the driver who hit me was now caught and jailed. I was able to meet him face to face and his 2 kids yesterday (he can't even dare to stare on my face). I was smiling alright because I wanted to lessen the tension between me and him. The first question that I was able to ask him is why did he ran away and just left me lying in the street. I'll just not put his answer here, but I can feel some sort of fear and sincerity in his answer. I've also seen his 2 kids (which I think are about 5-7 years old) crying from a distance while I was conversing with their dad. I was really moved (and I pity the kids) by that so I can't help but call them and say "Don't worry, I'm not going to do something wrong with daddy. Don't be afraid, I'm your bro"- something like that.


And as I've put in the title, this might be stupid, crazy or whatever, but I DON'T want to file any complaints against that driver. It's not like I'm making him not responsible for what happened to me or I don't feel any "bitterness" on him, but it's just that I pity his kids and I don't want to take their dad away from them because of being jailed for years (he's a single parent and I worry of who will take care of the kids when he's "in"). I have soft spot on kids and seeing them so concerned for their dad really breaks my heart. What I was thinking now (and what I've been suggesting to my attorney) is just to revoke his license, make him do some community service on our univ and make him pay expenses that my parents had spent when I was hospitalized (they're saving that money so that they have something to use when they are already old). Se Jin, my parents and my friends disapprove this of course, but I just said that they should just leave it to me...

I think you did the right thing. If you feel he is sincerely regretful of what he has done, i'm pretty sure the course of action you want to take is the best. You're not totally letting him off the hook, but you also don't want him and his kids to suffer a lot for it.

While what he did was awful, there is always room for forgiveness as far as i'm concerned and as this matter is between you and him for the most part. If you feel like he's sincere and have seen signs to support that, its totally up to you to forgive him. And like i said, you're not also totally letting him off the hook. Revoking his license, community service and paying for the expenses (assuming you're sure you can get him to do all this without pressing charges, as i'm not sure how things work where you live) isn't exactly nothing.

You do have of course to watch out for the things other members pointed out (such as him trying to manipulate you, or having his kids there to move you etc..), but if you were putting that in mind already then i think there is nothing to worry about. So again, given the circumstances i think what you did is perfectly alright and is not crazy at all.

 

[Badran]

I really don't see any of those as valid excuses

Not excuses, i agree. But things to seriously consider before sending a man to jail for years (assuming again that its up to Lawerence).

 

[McBell]

Not excuses, i agree. But things to seriously consider before sending a man to jail for years (assuming again that its up to Lawerence).

To me it all depends.

If he had not be "caught" would he have given any more thought to how he messed up another persons life and ran away from it?

That he had to be caught makes it sound to me as though he had no intentions of owning up for what he did.

thus making the whole list of excuses nothing more than a pile of BS.

It is one thing to panic, flee and turn oneself in after one calms down.
It is another to panic, flee and then only have to own up because you got caught.

 

[Kathryn]

Lawrence, if you lived one day in the life of a bank manager, or in law enforcement, or as the parent of a rebellious 17 year old, you'd understand a good con job. I'm sorry, but I don't think you have some sort of sixth sense "skill" at reading the motives of others, especially those who play a good game.

I think it's interesting that you wouldn't post the answer he gave you about why he didn't stop to render aid. My gosh, man, there's a reason why he was arrested - what he did was inhumane and criminal.

Question - how would you feel if you had witnessed this guy run your mother down and leave her in the street? You didn't answer this the last time I asked you.

One more point - forgiveness doesn't mean that you don't allow a person to be punished.

Let me give you an example. When I was 19, I was violently raped by an acquaintance - not on a date, not a boyfriend, no drugs or alcohol involved. I took a FRIEND by his house in the middle of the afternoon in order for him to "pick up a book he needed for class," went in with him because he offered me a soda, and he raped me - and then started crying and begging forgiveness as I laid there with a busted lip and bruises all over me - not to mention the emotional devastation of being raped.

I went back and forth all day about whether or not to press charges. I even went and spoke to the police. But in the back of my mind, I kept seeing my "friend's" face, distorted with tears and anxiety, begging me to forgive him.

In the end, I didn't press charges.

Come to find out, he went on from there to abuse and neglect a string of women and children. Could I have thwarted at least some of that by allowing justice to take it's course? Probably.

I also found out that though I would have told you I forgave him, the emotional scars impacted me for literally decades. It took me about ten years to realize that I hadn't actually forgiven him - I had taken the blame on myself and never forgiven myself.

By the time I truly forgave him, and myself, I had already made a pretty big mess of my life - and my problems stemmed from that afternoon that I lost my innocence at the hands of a criminal.

The man who ran you down and left you to die in the streets is a criminal. Normal people, people with empathy and decency, don't do that - no matter how scared they are. He chose HIS life over yours.

You can and should forgive him for that - IF he is repentant - but forgiveness doesn't mean that you let someone go without recompense or punishment. He owes, not only you, and your parents, but SOCIETY in general, because he is a member of that society and he violated that society's principles and safety. Why do you feel you should let him off the hook when it wasn't only you whose trust he violated?

 

[Badran]

To me it all depends.

If he had not be "caught" would he have given any more thought to how he messed up another persons life and ran away from it?

That he had to be caught makes it sound to me as though he had no intentions of owning up for what he did.

thus making the whole list of excuses nothing more than a pile of BS.

It is one thing to panic, flee and turn oneself in after one calms down.
It is another to panic, flee and then only have to own up because you got caught.

I agree that there is a big difference in both cases. Not sure i would say that if he was caught then i would surely condemn him to jail, but i would certainly be more inclined towards it.

However, i can think of possible scenarios where i would sympathize and understand, and decide to do the same as Lawerence did even if the guy was caught. That mainly is due to my understanding (based on my personal experience) of how easily doing something wrong can get out of hand and you end up doing more things that you wouldn't usually do.

A lot gets into this of course. For example, if the guy gave himself in afterwards, would he still surely end up in jail? Or be much more likely to end up in jail? If so, i can understand (considering that he's a single parent) how he would take a lot of time being unable to give himself in. Its a big decision that requires a lot of character and high ethical standards.

Again, i'm not really making excuses at all, only just trying to put myself in the guy's shoes. In other words, trying to find whether or not its possible for him to do this while not being a scumbag, generally. And i think its possible. I can also think that Lawerence's reaction might actually touch the person in question a lot, and make him regret what he did even more (i know this may sound naive, but it actually happens sometimes).

Thats why generally i think if Lawerence took all things into consideration, and feels the guy is sincerely regretful, what he did is totally fine with me, and not crazy at all.

 

[Me Myself]

What I was thinking now (and what I've been suggesting to my attorney) is just to revoke his license, make him do some community service on our univ and make him pay expenses that my parents had spent when I was hospitalized (they're saving that money so that they have something to use when they are already old).

Is revoking the license permanent?

You are the one who talked to him. Now you have certain degree of responsability about wheter this person will still be on the streets or not. I don´t know if a revoked license is permanent or temporal. I think it´s good he has to literaly pay ($) for what he did and do community service and hope that is enough so he won´t endanger anyone´s life again andf live him on his own.

That´s really one of the important things you have to think about. Is the risk worthwhile? of endangering other people if he goes back to the streets?

Now if the revoking of the license is permanent, then yeah! Good thing you do this for the kids definetely.

The decision is definetely yours. It doesn´t matter what your friends say in that regard (as lovingly for you as it may be what they say). I jst waned t gave you a bit more to consider.

Hope you luck and wisdom in your choice, and it´s really cool that you can even consider it and think through what yuo are going to do.

It takes stones.

 

[Badran]

You can and should forgive him for that - IF he is repentant - but forgiveness doesn't mean that you let someone go without recompense or punishment. He owes, not only you, and your parents, but SOCIETY in general, because he is a member of that society and he violated that society's principles and safety. Why do you feel you should let him off the hook when it wasn't only you whose trust he violated?

I don't think its a healthy practice to promote punishment every single time regardless and say its because the person owe's society as well. We should take things into consideration in each and every case.

If first time criminals, who have no records, who show sincere remorse, aren't candidates for forgiveness and exemption from punishment i don't know who is. And again, Lawerence isn't actually trying to get the guy totally of the hook. He's just trying to not ruin his life and make his kids suffer (and supposedly he has seen enough to make a judgement that the guy is sincerely regretful of what he has done).

 

[Reptillian]

I agree with Kathryn, this guy committed a crime. He's guilty of accidentally injuring another person, then running away and leaving him to die or lay in agony. Actions have consequences. He expresses remorse, but he deserves to answer for his actions. A man puts his hand on a hot stove and gets a terrible burn...you may pity the man, but its still his fault and he still has to deal with the consequences of his decision. It isn't for you (Lawrence) to determine the punishment deserved, but thats a matter best left to a judge and jury. You can testify that you forgive him and that you feel he deserves a second chance and no jail time at the trial, but let the law and society decide how justice should best be served. Justice isn't just about the individual, its about society as a whole. He violated the social contract that we all agree to when we live in a civilization.

 

[Kathryn]

I agree with Kathryn, this guy committed a crime. He's guilty of accidentally injuring another person, then running away and leaving him to die or lay in agony. Actions have consequences. He expresses remorse, but he deserves to answer for his actions. A man puts his hand on a hot stove and gets a terrible burn...you may pity the man, but its still his fault and he still has to deal with the consequences of his decision. It isn't for you (Lawrence) to determine the punishment deserved, but thats a matter best left to a judge and jury. You can testify that you forgive him and that you feel he deserves a second chance and no jail time at the trial, but let the law and society decide how justice should best be served. Justice isn't just about the individual, its about society as a whole. He violated the social contract that we all agree to when we live in a civilization.

This. :yes:

 

[Kathryn]

I don't think its a healthy practice to promote punishment every single time regardless and say its because the person owe's society as well. We should take things into consideration in each and every case.

If first time criminals, who have no records, who show sincere remorse, aren't candidates for forgiveness and exemption from punishment i don't know who is. And again, Lawerence isn't actually trying to get the guy totally of the hook. He's just trying to not ruin his life and make his kids suffer (and supposedly he has seen enough to make a judgement that the guy is sincerely regretful of what he has done).

He met the guy one time. Oh wait - he met him twice - the first time he met him the guy left him bleeding in the street, critically injured requiring weeks in the hospital, and drove off.

The courts will take his lack of a prior criminal record into consideration. Heck, he'll probably get off very easy regardless of whether or not Lawrence speaks out for him.

My advice would be for Lawrence to tell the court that he forgives the guy, and doesn't want to infringe on his ability to take care of his kids, and leave it at that. Let the judge decide.

 

[Me Myself]

My advice would be for Lawrence to tell the court that he forgives the guy, and doesn't want to infringe on his ability to take care of his kids, and leave it at that. Let the judge decide.

Sounds reasonable...

My prime concern still is that he is as away from the streets is one can be.

I shudder at the thought of him driving again.

 

[Thief]

Don't worry dudes. He'll learn even without spending his life on jail. I promise. My plans never fail.

Just a note to the contrary.

Having been assaulted, I took the matter to the law.

The judge explained, without charges filed, compensation for injury and debt become a civil matter, not a criminal matter.

I hoped by showing mercy, and no charges filed, the fool would see the error of his ways and make amends.

Judgment was settled in my favor, but without charges, it was up to the 'bad' guy to agree and comply with the judges orders.

Nope!...and pursuing the matter in small claims took years.
The judge sent for the sheriff and the sheriff went looking.....
Realizing my intent the other guy moved .....far, far, away.

 

[Badran]

Justice isn't just about the individual, its about society as a whole. He violated the social contract that we all agree to when we live in a civilization.

I agree that he did, but don't see what in that suggests that he has to be punished. In other words, my objection isn't towards that statement, but on supposedly it being something that makes everyone liable to be punished regardless.

If he has no records, and his victim forgives him and does not want to punish him, i can't see why on earth wouldn't he be a candidate for being 'pardoned', or punished much less severely.

 

[Badran]

He met the guy one time. Oh wait - he met him twice - the first time he met him the guy left him bleeding in the street, critically injured requiring weeks in the hospital, and drove off.

I already know what he did.

As for Lawerence's knowledge of him, he checked his records as well, and is taking into consideration that the guy is a single parent. Should they be friends first for a couple of years before he can make a judgement?

The courts will take his lack of a prior criminal record into consideration. Heck, he'll probably get off very easy regardless of whether or not Lawrence speaks out for him.

And if so, thats basically what Lawerence wants. So i don't see any reason to object to what Lawerence wants to do.

My advice would be for Lawrence to tell the court that he forgives the guy, and doesn't want to infringe on his ability to take care of his kids, and leave it at that. Let the judge decide.

Unless of course he knows that man will much more likely, or perhaps surely end up in jail if he press charges.

 

[Reptillian]

I agree that he did, but don't see what in that suggests that he has to be punished. In other words, my objection isn't towards that statement, but on supposedly it being something that makes everyone liable to be punished regardless.

If he has no records, and his victim forgives him and does not want to punish him, i can't see why on earth wouldn't he be a candidate for being 'pardoned', or punished much less severely.

If a guy is homeless and can't feed his family because he gambled away all his money, is that a punishment? If a teenage skateborder attempts a reckless move and breaks his arm, is that a punishment? If a person gets cancer from decades of heavy smoking, is that a punishment? Consequences are different than punishments. Leaving a man you've injured for dead is a choice deserving of a consequence in my mind. What that consequence is shouldn't be Lawrence's (the victims) choice, it should a matter for a judge and jury of his peers.

My mom once hit a cat with her car. She stopped and cried over that cat's body and then went over to the neighbors house and confessed to accidentally hitting that cat. The point is that my mother showed more care for that animal than this fellow did for another human being... I think he deserves to answer for this.

 

[Renji]

Lawrence, if you lived one day in the life of a bank manager, or in law enforcement, or as the parent of a rebellious 17 year old, you'd understand a good con job. I'm sorry, but I don't think you have some sort of sixth sense "skill" at reading the motives of others, especially those who play a good game.

It's not "sixth sense", but something that you learn from psychology.

I think it's interesting that you wouldn't post the answer he gave you about why he didn't stop to render aid. My gosh, man, there's a reason why he was arrested - what he did was inhumane and criminal.

I know, but don't you think that what he did is a human response (sort of)? If I were in his position, I would honestly run away too I think (not sure really if I can just do that, but out of confusion and emotional stress on the scenario, it can be possible). I don't want to be in those stinking prison cell. It's very rare that you would see someone who have done something like that who would turn himself/herself to the authorities IMO.

Question - how would you feel if you had witnessed this guy run your mother down and leave her in the street? You didn't answer this the last time I asked you.

Have him jailed. But the thing is, it's something between me and that guy, so definitely, I can make such action which may seem to be a bit crazy.

One more point - forgiveness doesn't mean that you don't allow a person to be punished.

Isn't revoking his license so that he cannot drive FOREVER (FYI, it's part of my plan to have his name on the watch list on the Land transportation office so that he won't be able to get his license back.), 172 hours of community service and paying amount of money still unjust for both of us? I don't think so. Sorry if you think the opposite..

Let me give you an example. When I was 19, I was violently raped by an acquaintance - not on a date, not a boyfriend, no drugs or alcohol involved. I took a FRIEND by his house in the middle of the afternoon in order for him to "pick up a book he needed for class," went in with him because he offered me a soda, and he raped me - and then started crying and begging forgiveness as I laid there with a busted lip and bruises all over me - not to mention the emotional devastation of being raped.

I went back and forth all day about whether or not to press charges. I even went and spoke to the police. But in the back of my mind, I kept seeing my "friend's" face, distorted with tears and anxiety, begging me to forgive him.

In the end, I didn't press charges.

Come to find out, he went on from there to abuse and neglect a string of women and children. Could I have thwarted at least some of that by allowing justice to take it's course? Probably.

I also found out that though I would have told you I forgave him, the emotional scars impacted me for literally decades. It took me about ten years to realize that I hadn't actually forgiven him - I had taken the blame on myself and never forgiven myself.

By the time I truly forgave him, and myself, I had already made a pretty big mess of my life - and my problems stemmed from that afternoon that I lost my innocence at the hands of a criminal.

The man who ran you down and left you to die in the streets is a criminal. Normal people, people with empathy and decency, don't do that - no matter how scared they are. He chose HIS life over yours.

You can and should forgive him for that - IF he is repentant - but forgiveness doesn't mean that you let someone go without recompense or punishment. He owes, not only you, and your parents, but SOCIETY in general, because he is a member of that society and he violated that society's principles and safety. Why do you feel you should let him off the hook when it wasn't only you whose trust he violated?

The thing is, he didn't actually cry or begged me of something. What I can see from him now is fear of me and shame of what he has done. And besides, I'm not going to have him released FREE of charge, he needs to sign some sort of contract approved by the court with the conditions I've given. And he can't run away from it, as he will be included on the watch list on their area as soon as he will sign that "contract".

 

[Draka]

If a guy is homeless and can't feed his family because he gambled away all his money, is that a punishment? If a teenage skateborder attempts a reckless move and breaks his arm, is that a punishment? If a person gets cancer from decades of heavy smoking, is that a punishment? Consequences are different than punishments. Leaving a man you've injured for dead is a choice deserving of a consequence in my mind. What that consequence is shouldn't be Lawrence's (the victims) choice, it should a matter for a judge and jury of his peers.

My mom once hit a cat with her car. She stopped and cried over that cat's body and then went over to the neighbors house and confessed to accidentally hitting that cat. The point is that my mother showed more care for that animal than this fellow did for another human being... I think he deserves to answer for this.

Shoot, a cried over a bird that swooped in front of my car and got hit while I was driving down the highway. I had a dog run right out in front of me once and I hit it and immediately stopped my van and got out to check on it. It had quickly scampered back to its doghouse and I spoke to the owner. I can't even fathom hitting a person and not stopping. Hell, I've stopped to check on a cat that got hit by another driver. How can someone NOT stop when they hit a person?

 

[Kathryn]

Lawrence, are you saying that you are suggesting that this guy get his license - in other words, his ability to drive - revoked FOREVER?

That will seriously hurt his ability/options to care for his two kids.

Heck, I promise you - if my choice was either spend a year or two in jail, or lose my license for the rest of my life, I'd make a beeline to the pokey and learn how to paint license plates and be somebody's ***** for awhile.

As for psychology vs sixth sense, and your ability to "read" people - it takes a lot more than a psychology course or even a degree to accurately read others. It also requires objective reasoning - and I suggest that you are too emotionally involved in this case to be able to be objective.

 

[idea]

Here's a vid of a guy talking with the drunk driver that killed his pregnant wife and kids...
[youtube]E7zwQ_7q-fU[/youtube]
Forgiveness: My Burden Was Made Light - YouTube

a fine line, trying to be both a good Samaritan, but not allowing yourself to be trampled in the process either, and not condoning wrong behavior through brushing everything off...

hope everything works out for the best for you!