Those who believe there is no God live by faith

[Ayjaydee]

Nonsense. Prove it. I have posted retailed responses showing why I believe what I believe. Seems your making things up now.

Taken that survey yet?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Your words are indeed empty as you cannot prove them

So you think that there no possibility for you to be wrong here?

 

[3rdAngel]

You never came close to documenting 2.4 billion experiences with god

I suggest you read what I posted. It is in realtion to the amount of people around the would 1/3 of the worlds population claiming to be christian. I never said all of these people are genuine christians and also stated in other posts not everyone of them have had an experience with God but it is not for me to judge who has and who has not.

 

[Ayjaydee]

So you think that there no possibility for you to be wrong here?

This surprises you?

 

[3rdAngel]

So you think that there no possibility for you to be wrong here?

I believe if I am wrong in anything I have posted here God will let me know and I will acknowledge it. Now you prove to me what I have posted wrong in your view Dan and lets discuss it in detail

 

[Ayjaydee]

I suggest you read what I posted. It is in realtion to the amount of people around the would 1/3 of the woulds population claiming to be christian. I never said and also stated in other posts not everyone of them have had an experience with God and it is not for me to judge who has and who has not.

Lol! Good one

 

[3rdAngel]

Lol! Good one

Your welcome

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Your words are indeed empty as you cannot prove them

I had questions that you seem to want to avoid.

Is there no possibility that you could be wrong? That is a lot of posters you told were wrong about everything they posted.

I am just being honest here and not sorry about it either.

Do you have more than empty words in response to my question?

 

[3rdAngel]

Why don't we start with the scriptures posted to you yesterday did you read them? What do you think they mean?

 

[Ayjaydee]

Your welcome

Lol, someone compliments you and you say you're welcome? Time for a little lie down? Lol

 

[3rdAngel]

I had questions that you seem to want to avoid.

You mean like the ones I asked you yesterday in regards to the scriptures I posted to you asking you what you think they mean? I am happy to discuss your questions if you want to discuss mine as well. A discussion goes two ways do you not agree? See post 1087 already answered yours. How about you answer mine?https://www.religiousforums.com/thr...god-live-by-faith.229554/page-55#post-6518465

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I believe if I am wrong in anything I have posted here God will let me know and I will acknowledge it. Now you prove to me what I have posted wrong in your view Dan and lets discuss it in detail

I am asking you if there is any possibility that there were errors in your response to others. You seem to be avoiding an answer. Since there is no way for any of us to know if you receive guidance on this from God or anyone else, why do you avoid responding to to the question?

 

[Polymath257]

Your response...

It doesn't. Insufficient evidence is not a basis for something to be true or not true it is only insufficient evidence that cannot determine what truth is.

OK, I disagree here. There *is* a point where lack of evidence is evidence of non-existence. And that is when you can reasonably *expect* there to be evidence of a certain type that has not appeared.

For example, the fact that I cannot see an elephant in my room is sufficient evidence to say there is no elephant in my room. That is because if an elephant were in my room, I would certainly see it.

This is repetition here. This has been dealt with already in post # 669. But that said the key thing is that we know that the origin of the invisible pink unicorn is simply fictitious and made up from someones imagination with no claim to being real. No one has seen one and not one claims to existense, therefore we put it into the ridiculous category concerning belief and non existent.

OK, so you are saying that if the original myth-making was lost in time and people actually claimed pink unicorns to exist, then it would be reasonable to say they do? Or that it would be reasonable to say the evidence isn't clear?

I disagree with that. God belief has the advantage that the original stories are lost in time and people actually believed in the stories. That doesn't mean they are true. And, in fact, without any evidence to back up the stories, the defaul is to *disbelieve* them.

As posted earlier elsewhere in that same post, the Christian know they cannot conclusively prove God through external evidence and admits to living by faith. However they do so knowing that they have the evidence of personal experience and the collective witness to the revelation of God. Athiesm on the other hand denies the belief in God or the existence in God yet it also has no evidence therefore hold simply to a belief that is also faith based but in the opposite direction. As posted earlier insufficient evidence is not a basis for something to be true or not true it is only insufficient evidence that cannot determine what truth is.

One does not need evidence to lack a belief in the existence of God. The lack of evidence is quite sufficient to support the *lack* of belief. And, in fact, it is the default position given the lack of evidence.

Once again, it is *always* the case that the burden of proof is on the positive existence statement. Theology attempts to circumvent that, but that is a case of special pleading and is invalid.

Nonsense. Your denying personal experience and a personal revelation of God which is a part of the Chrsitian experience and the collective witness of those who have had that experience all through time to this very present day which now constitutes up to 1/3 of the worlds population claiming the same thing which is evidence in and of itself. All you have provided here is your opinion that you cannot prove as you have no evidence to support your claims IMO.

I am not denying the experiences exist. I am denying that they are correctly interpreted. And it is simply not the case that 1/3 of the world's population is claiming the same thing. Instead, 1/3 claim to be Christians. That says nothing about them having an experience one way or the other. Second, the experiences they do have (even among Christians) are mutually contradictory. Third, by excluding the experiences of other religions and non-religions, you are falsely justifying your particular interpretation.

I would disagree here. People lose their faith in God everyday and depart theor belief. If your honest you should know this as there are many on this board that will tell you that is their personal experience. People also that do not believe in God also change their views and move from unbelief and athiesm to follow God also. So what we are talking about here moves in both direction. I use to not believe in God and also use to mock Christian as not living by evidence but by blind faith, until I found God and realised I was also simply living by faith that God did not exist. All your doing is showing by your very own arguments that you do not believe in God and you do not believe God exists but your unable to prove your claims that God does not exist or can you prove your claims to someone's personal experience and that fact these experiences are world-wide experienced in every generation since the beginning of time. which means your living by faith. I have beed where you are until I found God has always been here all the time but I have closed my mind not to see him.

I fail to see how this addresses my point that God-belief is socially supported and promoted. That is, after all, what Churches are all about. Plus before recently, this had the force of law: people who were not believers were systematically discriminated against (not allowed to testify in court, for example) to actually being killed for their lack of belief.

Yes, as the chains of religion have loosened, it has become more acceptable for people to renounce belief and move to non-belief. I consider that a very good thing.

As for my personal beliefs, I think the Abrahamic God does not exist. I think the evidence is conclusive that the Biblical stories are fiction and that the myth is false.

For other formulations of the God concept, my belief depends on the specifics. For example, pantheists can identify God with the universe and I believe the universe exists. Does that make me a theist? In their mind, I might be. I find some pagan concepts about deities to be interesting, but not useful for me (which is closer to their standard).

The 'philosopher's God' is yet another God concept that isn't Abrahamic. it is one that I neither believe nor disbelieve. I find it amusing to discuss.

And, for example, I allow that there might be a race of high dimensional beings that have figured out how to create universes, one of which is ours. By some definitions, these beings would be Gods. And again, I neither believe nor disbelieve in the existence of such beings.

 

[Jim]

I use to not believe in God and also use to mock Christian as not living by evidence but by blind faith, until I found God and realised I was also simply living by faith that God did not exist. All your doing is showing by your very own arguments that you do not believe in God and you do not believe God exists but your unable to prove your claims that God does not exist or can you prove your claims to someone's personal experience and that fact these experiences are world-wide experienced in every generation since the beginning of time. which means your living by faith.

I see a possible difference between your faith in God, and the faith that people have sometimes that there is no such thing as the God you say you believe in. You verbalize your faith. You say to yourself and others that you believe in God. Faith that there is no such thing is nonverbal. People live as if there is no such thing, trusting that there is no such thing, without verbalizing that as a belief.

Did anything change in your behavior after you started believing in God, other than the targets of your denunciations and your reasons for denouncing them?

What changed in the way you live your life, after you started believing in God?

 

[3rdAngel]

I am asking you if there is any possibility that there were errors in your response to others. You seem to be avoiding an answer. Since there is no way for any of us to know if you receive guidance on this from God or anyone else, why do you avoid responding to to the question?

Goodness, your not even reading my posts to you are you? What does the post above yours say? No wonder your making unsubstantiated claims

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You mean like the ones I asked you yesterday in regards to the scriptures I posted to you asking you what you think they mean? I am happy to discuss your questions if you want to discuss mine as well. A discussion goes two ways do you not agree? See post 1087 already answered yours. How about you answer mine?

So you are rushing to another excuse.

I don't recall seeing any posts about scriptures. We can return to that old business when you have honestly answered the current question. No excuses.

 

[3rdAngel]

Sorry all late my time, @Polymath257 will respond in detail latter after I am rested. I am sure I have already responded to alot of your post content already in earlier posts though. Good night to everyone talk latter

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Goodness, your not even reading my posts to you are you? What does the post above yours say? No wonder your making unsubstantiated claims

Goodness, you are not answering my question and do everything you can to avoid answering it.

I am asking questions. That you are avoiding is not unsubstantiated. It is here for all to see.

is there no possibility that you could be wrong in your responses to the many points made by others on here? You shot everything down. You made lots of claims. Are you suggesting that everything you posted was flawless and without error?

 

[3rdAngel]

So you are rushing to another excuse.
I don't recall seeing any posts about scriptures. We can return to that old business when you have honestly answered the current question. No excuses.

Well Dan seems like I am correct. Your not reading my posts to you are you. Anyhow I will link them to you latter after I am rested. To tired to find them for you now.

 

[Jim]

I use to not believe in God and also use to mock Christian as not living by evidence but by blind faith, until I found God and realised I was also simply living by faith that God did not exist. All your doing is showing by your very own arguments that you do not believe in God and you do not believe God exists but your unable to prove your claims that God does not exist or can you prove your claims to someone's personal experience and that fact these experiences are world-wide experienced in every generation since the beginning of time. which means your living by faith.

I see a possible difference between your faith in God, and faith that there is no such thing as the God you say you believe in. You verbalize your faith. You say to yourself and others that you believe in God. Faith that there is no such thing is nonverbal. Sometimes people live as if there is no such thing, trusting that there is no such thing, without verbalizing that as a belief.

What’s different about the way you live your life now, since you started believing in God?