Thoughts on the Fall of Adam

[Ancient Soul]

You've ever heard the Creationist argument the highest global mountain pre-Flood was less than 8,000 feet tall and that Noah's Flood made mountains much taller. ...

No, not yet. But thanks for the warning, I'll try to do some research to have some refuting facts ready when they do.

But I have had the Christians try to claim that the earth was originally completely FLAT, and it was "the flood" that made the mountains.

How they sure do LOVE to change reality to suit their mythology!

 

[Ancient Soul]

If you save Adam can you save Lucifer?

Why, are you trying to save them up to start a complete collection?

Good luck trying to find a jesus, it's been some 2,000 years with THOUSANDS of people searching for even the slightest trace of his existence, and still nothing!

 

[Ancient Soul]

What have you accomplished by that, beside stating real nonsense?

What nonsense?

Show me even ONE post of mine promoting any of the real nonsense in the bible.

Go ahead, the clock is ticking!

 

[lukethethird]

This is very strong evidence imo, that the account is authentic. (John 21:25)

Yes, it all happened just as it is written and everything will be alright.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I clearly stated:

">>>most<<< Christian denominations the Genesis myth is a critical part of their beliefs"

Which it is. Without it, and its inherent "original sin" lie, the entire Christian brainwashing system would crumble.

Absolutely not ... many Christians including myself see most of Genesis as the ancient Myth that it is.
And our faith is strengthened by doing so.

 

[Jollybear]

Not buying your excuses.

Excuses huh? Lol, no sir, its you that makes excuses.

I did my research and many of the key parts of the jesus myth were clearly plagiarized from several previous pagan myths.

I did my research too and my conclusions differ. Matter of fact, it boggles my mind that some people think they can read one article that they already agreed with and then say they did there research. Its incredable. Lets break down the RE in REsearch. It means KEEP RE searching.

But hey, would you like to dive into some examples? Im not afraid to go deeper. How about you?

I also researched how religions were more like "businesses" always trying to come up with new and "improved" mythologies to fool the people into giving them their money. The jesus myth was just one of many.

Just because an organization or religion needs funds so the people in it can serve full time dont mean the religion itself is wrong.

Ill backfire with this. Richard carier is a big proponent of the bible being myth, yet he makes money being a scholar and makes profits off his books he sells. Yet, you agree with him.

By your own standards, funds equel the idea is wrong, should mean to you Richard carrier is wrong. But, yea, YOUR NOT CONSISTENT.

Now I know you cannot accept that, but thems the facts.

Ill tell you what i can or cannot accept, you wont tell me that, understood? And i just accepted it in my above explanation. But, it dont mean nothing.

Not buying into that one either.

My life story is vastly different than anyone else's.

Yea, it is, and so is Jesus story vastly different then anyone elses.

But, your life story, just like Jesus, will have similarities with mine.

Me and you wer both born of a woman. We both drive a car. We both drink water. Oh my gosh, who plagurized who there? Me from you or you from me? You get the point.

You made THIS specific claim:

"seraphim is a flying fiery serpent or dragon like angel"?

And you gave no such reference from the bible to back it up.

Oh YES I DID give references to back it up, LOOK AT THEM. Its not my fault you want to pretend i gave none. Thats your responsibility.

So with much less words, you really have no such "magic spirit" after all. If you did, you wouldn't need to "study" anything.

You totally missed the whole point with your dismissive additude.

God does speak to people at times. Most times God lets people figure things out using there own brains. Thats why he gave us one after all. Unfortanately, some people dont use it properly. Unlike myself of course.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am wondering if you ever read the 3rd chapter of Genesis _______
The reason I ask is because, according to Genesis 3:2-3, Eve did tell the serpent that she knew the Law.
In verse 4 is where the serpent contradicts the Law to Eve.

You're right - I must have missed that.

What collective punishment.

This collective punishment:


14 The Lord God said to the serpent,
“Because you have done this,
cursed are you above all the wild beasts
and all the living creatures of the field!
On your belly you will crawl
and dust you will eat all the days of your life.
15 And I will put hostility between you and the woman
and between your offspring and her offspring;
her offspring will attack your head,
and you will attack her offspring’s heel.”
16 To the woman he said,
“I will greatly increase your labor pains;
with pain you will give birth to children.
You will want to control your husband,
but he will dominate you.”
17 But to Adam he said,
“Because you obeyed your wife
and ate from the tree about which I commanded you,
‘You must not eat from it,’
cursed is the ground thanks to you;
in painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
but you will eat the grain of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat food
until you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
for you are dust, and to dust you will return.”

Because of the actions of one serpent, God punished every serpent that would ever exist.

Because of the actions of one man, God punished every man who would ever exist.

Because of the actions of one woman, God punished every woman who would ever exist.

This is collective punishment.

 

[nPeace]

I have shown that it is a myth. What confuses me is why Bible literalists believe in a lying God.

Truth be told I used to be a Christian and I still do not like it when Christians look bad as a result. Conflating believing the myths of Genesis with being a Christian is a huge mistake.

You have done what? When? Where? Dreaming?
Do you believe the ninth commandment? Who gave it?

What nonsense?

Show me even ONE post of mine promoting any of the real nonsense in the bible.

Go ahead, the clock is ticking!

I don't see any nonsense in the Bible, so it would not be possible to show you what you are requesting.
However, you have not shown anything to prove what you are stating, and surely you are not asking me to repeat what I posted.
Yes, the clock is indeed ticking, and it's only a matter of time before it's 'Game Over'. So enjoy your little sci-fi while it lasts.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You have done what? When? Where? Dreaming?
Do you believe the ninth commandment? Who gave it?

Your inability to understand something does not mean that it was not done. You have to keep yourself ignorant to maintain your beliefs. Can you be honest? If you can be honest I can even explain to you why your beliefs are wrong. The problem is that literalists cannot afford to be honest.

And I know more about the source of the Ninth Commandment than you do. I merely find it ironic when Christians cannot follow it or even understand it.

I don't see any nonsense in the Bible, so it would not be possible to show you what you are requesting.
However, you have not shown anything to prove what you are stating, and surely you are not asking me to repeat what I posted.
Yes, the clock is indeed ticking, and it's only a matter of time before it's 'Game Over'. So enjoy your little sci-fi while it lasts.

Drop your fear and try to study it without prejudice.

 

[nPeace]

Your inability to understand something does not mean that it was not done. You have to keep yourself ignorant to maintain your beliefs. Can you be honest? If you can be honest I can even explain to you why your beliefs are wrong. The problem is that literalists cannot afford to be honest.

And I know more about the source of the Ninth Commandment than you do. I merely find it ironic when Christians cannot follow it or even understand it.



Drop your fear and try to study it without prejudice.

I'm not even going to attempt to debate with you on any topic related to ignorance, or inability to understand, or even having knowledge. That's pointless.
Nor do I expect that you would ever admit your fears, at least not to any of us here. So I just have one thing to say.

Spoiler

Have a good day.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not even going to attempt to debate with you on any topic related to ignorance, or inability to understand, or even having knowledge. That's pointless.
Nor do I expect that you would ever admit your fears, at least not to any of us here. So I just have one thing to say.

Spoiler

Have a good day.

I am much more likely to own up to my fears that you are to yours. The problem is that when it comes to the sciences you, like all other creationists, continually demonstrate ignorance of all of the sciences. Worse yet you won't even learn the basics of science which would allow you to properly check the work of your fellow creationists.

Why won't you take me up on my offer to go over the basics of science? That looks like fear to me. It would not take long and yet you avoid the basics of science as if it were the Devil itself.

 

[nPeace]

I am much more likely to own up to my fears that you are to yours. The problem is that when it comes to the sciences you, like all other creationists, continually demonstrate ignorance of all of the sciences. Worse yet you won't even learn the basics of science which would allow you to properly check the work of your fellow creationists.

Why won't you take me up on my offer to go over the basics of science? That looks like fear to me. It would not take long and yet you avoid the basics of science as if it were the Devil itself.

Were you offering something?
Perhaps you should get someone to translate your posts, because all I saw was baseless accusations.

However, I have already witnessed your teaching remember, and it is not impressive at all. You can't teach me anything, other than "how to act as though you know more than others".
Sorry. Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not interested in another religion, or philosophy.

The knowledge you fear, and run away from is really beneficial when understood correctly. I am not interested in forcing that on you, since you aren't open to it. So I guess that means we live by our knowledge.
The way I see it, my morals surpass any you dream of.... My knowledge as well.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Were you offering something?
Perhaps you should get someone to translate your posts, because all I saw was baseless accusations.

I never make baseless accusations. If you do not understand a post you should ask questions.

However, I have already witnessed your teaching remember, and it is not impressive at all. You can't teach me anything, other than "how to act as though you know more than others".
Sorry. Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not interested in another religion, or philosophy.

Wrong, you would not let yourself learn. Your fear got in the way. I can teach those that are willing to learn.

The knowledge you fear, and run away from is really beneficial when understood correctly. I am not interested in forcing that on you, since you aren't open to it. So I guess that means we live by our knowledge.
The way I see it, my morals surpass any you dream of.... My knowledge as well.

What knowledge is that? No Christian has ever been able to demonstrate 'knowledge' about God. All they have demonstrated is belief. You can't even fact up to the fact that the Bible is wrong if interpreted literally, how will you ever be able to support your beliefs?

And no, your morals are almost certainly far inferior to mine. Christianity is based upon a flawed moral system. Christianity is based upon what they accuse atheists of doing all the time.

 

[Ancient Soul]

You have done what? When? Where? Dreaming?
Do you believe the ninth commandment? Who gave it?


I don't see any nonsense in the Bible, so it would not be possible to show you what you are requesting.
However, you have not shown anything to prove what you are stating, and surely you are not asking me to repeat what I posted.
Yes, the clock is indeed ticking, and it's only a matter of time before it's 'Game Over'. So enjoy your little sci-fi while it lasts.

I'm used to such Christian tactics of avoidance.

So you made the false claim, now go get something to back it up. And so you cannot play the amnesia game, here it is again:

"Show me even ONE post of mine promoting any of the real nonsense in the bible.

Go ahead, the clock is ticking!"

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You're right - I must have missed that.
This collective punishment:
Because of the actions of one serpent, God punished every serpent that would ever exist.
Because of the actions of one man, God punished every man who would ever exist.
Because of the actions of one woman, God punished every woman who would ever exist.
This is collective punishment.

I have heard that before about God punishing every serpent or ' snake in the grass ', so to speak.
Upon looking closer at Genesis 3:13-14 God is Not addressing the animals.
God is addressing that particular serpent (singular) that he is cursed ' above ' every animal.
Literal serpents or snakes eat other animals, and Not live on dust.
By God saying all the days of your life dust 'you'(serpent) will eat is as if we would be saying, ' bite the dust '.
'Eat dust ' is Bible speak that serpent Satan will die. Jesus will destroy Satan as per Hebrews 2:14 B.
Satan, as that original snake-in-the-grass serpent, will be crushed as per Genesis 3:15.

By breaking God's Law of the Land of Eden, then the result is break down of healthy human perfection.
Not so much as punishment, but as the bad consequences of wrongdoing on the part of Adam.
Satan knew that, and that is why at Job 2:4-5 we are all challenged by Satan.
'Touch our 'flesh...'(loose physical health) and we would Not serve God under adverse conditions.
Both Job and Jesus proved Satan a liar and so can we.
Adam proved unfaithful under good conditions.
Job and Jesus proved faithful under bad conditions.
Thus, God will undo all our suffering ( punishment as some view it ) through Jesus - Revelation 1:18.
Mankind will have perfect human health as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
Even ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth as per 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8.
No one will say, " I am sick...." - Isaiah 33:24.
Mankind will once again see the return of the Genesis "Tree of Life" on Earth again as per Revelation 22:2.
Under Christ's coming 1,000-year reign over Earth is when there will be ' healing ' for earth's nations.
This is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring the benefits of Genesis 12:3; Genesis 18:18; 22:18 to Earth for us.

 

[nPeace]

I'm used to such Christian tactics of avoidance.

So you made the false claim, now go get something to back it up. And so you cannot play the amnesia game, here it is again:

"Show me even ONE post of mine promoting any of the real nonsense in the bible.

Go ahead, the clock is ticking!"

I'm sorry. Did I speak Dutch?
I don't see any nonsense in the Bible, so it would not be possible to show you what you are requesting.

 

[Ancient Soul]

I'm not even going to attempt to debate with you on any topic related to ignorance, or inability to understand, or even having knowledge. That's pointless.
Nor do I expect that you would ever admit your fears, at least not to any of us here. So I just have one thing to say.

Spoiler

Have a good day.

Bring up FEAR is quite common with Christians since their entire brainwashing system is based upon FEAR mongering. Without it, nobody would buy into all the insanity in the bible.

And BTW - I notice that you have a strong tendency to go blank and totally avoid many a good point people make about the falseness of the bible, so I have to ask, is it all that Christian FEAR mongering gripping your mind that makes you do that?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What knowledge is that? No Christian has ever been able to demonstrate 'knowledge' about God. All they have demonstrated is belief.......................

I find at 1 Corinthians 2:16 that we do have the mind of Christ ( as recorded in Scripture ).
So, Jesus explains God to us, for this means everlasting life ( some in Heaven, most on Earth ) - John 17:3.
Jesus based his beliefs ( Not on thin air ) but on the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Jesus used logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures as the basis for his beliefs, his teachings.

 

[Ancient Soul]

I'm used to such Christian tactics of avoidance.

So you made the false claim, now go get something to back it up. And so you cannot play the amnesia game, here it is again:

"Show me even ONE post of mine promoting any of the real nonsense in the bible.

Go ahead, the clock is ticking!"

I'm sorry. Did I speak Dutch?
I don't see any nonsense in the Bible, so it would not be possible to show you what you are requesting.

Ha, ha, ha...

You Christians and your avoidance when you cannot back up your false claims.

Well, it's here on this forum for all to see, you cannot find any post of mine where I ever promoted any of the Christian nonsense, as that's the only nonsense going on in these threads.

 

[nPeace]

Bring up FEAR is quite common with Christians since their entire brainwashing system is based upon FEAR mongering. Without it, nobody would buy into all the insanity in the bible.

And BTW - I notice that you have a strong tendency to go blank and totally avoid many a good point people make about the falseness of the bible, so I have to ask, is it all that Christian FEAR mongering gripping your mind that makes you do that?

Where did you notice that? I don't.
You joined this month, so maybe there are some details you don't have.