Tired of being called a sinner?

[Comicaze247]

Is there anybody that can bring a charge against god? There is none. He has forgiven the whole world of all their sins. If there was any 'but god' left to be spoken, there is no reason for any 'buts' anymore. You have been forgiven god says, you have no excuse to have wandered away from him.

He has taken the moral superior road, by not keeping any offenses of mankind against them. And so i wont keep anything against mankind myself. If i forgive anybody their offenses, i am without guilt. Not they.

BUT, god says...vengeance is mine...I will repay. Repay what? Sins against god? No he has forgiven people their sins against him. But he will bring me justice as long as I have also forgiven mankind.

If somebody sins against me, it is not I who must repay them. Somebody else must do that. Who is qualified to judge mankind? God is. The wrath of god against mankind is because of their sins against his children and his creation. They will reap what they sowed. If they lived by the sword they will die by the sword. If i did not forgive, i would be guilty of the sin of unforgiveness and therefore will be judged myself. I do not want there to be anything against me on the day of judgement. So i will forgive as if my life depended on it. Is that the moral highground. YEs...its also the smart thing to do.

Heneni

I'm not talking about your "God." I'm talking about you. You keep acting morally superior and saying that you know for sure that they are "piling up judgment for themselves." Meaning what? Your tone implies that because of their actions "God" will favor you over them. Who's judging that? Seems to me that you're making a judgment call yourself.

And it seems your "forgiveness" is tainted. "I forgive you, 'cause you're gonna go to hell anyway" is pretty much your tone.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

And you won't get one. We're done here.

Well, let that be a lesson to you next time before you go trying to tell people what they need.....

You started your diatribe about salvation to some one who does not agree with your way of life. You obviously haven't been here long enough to understand that mball does not share in your dogmatic scare tactics.....If you were you would have realized sermon and jesus quotes were futile.

See, this is exactly what the OP was talking about.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

:angel2: Oh dear. HE HE...

Truth...not an answer to anything, but rather just a comment... You know the bible says that when jesus was raised up (on the cross) he drew all men unto him? Then he did just that. He drew THEM ALL. And if they did not put their faith in him to save them, they were not saved, left dead in their sins, and now are dead men walking. It is not a coincidence that we believe and that they do not. The bible says, that NOBODY that the father has given jesus will be lost. And his sheep KNOW his voice. If he speaks through us, and he does...it becomes apparent who said 'I DONT NEED A SAVIOUR' that day on the cross. Since they did not think to need him then...they do not think to need him now.

And if a very big part of the world is born hindu or anything else...god is in control of all of that. If they put their faith in themselves and in their false gods to save them, instead of in jesus, then it is only right and fitting to be born where they can continue in darkness worshipping false idols.

Although, it is also possible that there would be some who are born inbetween them who will be a witness to them, i.e tell them that jesus saves. For this reason, we are not too popular. Nobody likes to be reminded that they made the WRONG choice when jesus drew them to the cross. The gospel has been preached since the time of the OT, and jesus himself went to preach to the spirits in prison, were MOST if not ALL the spirits were. So nobody has not heard the gospel.

And the choice to not put faith in jesus, im afraid is irreversible. Unbelief cannot be forgiven.

Nobody can come to the father, but through jesus, and nobody will come to jesus unless the father draws them, and WE did not choose god, but he chose us. He chose us because we had faith in him to save us.

It is an honour to be chosen by god, and it is humbling to know that we can be called children of god. Im sure that nobody who does not find that gracious of him, were ever saved by the same grace.

In effect we are living testimonies to the saving grace of god, and also living proof of the coming wrath of god on the world. Which is why we are persecuted and trampled on. But, if we were not trampled on and persecuted our faith would be wishy washy and not real. I come here to get a good dose of persecution just to be reminded that i bear in my 'body' the scars of persecution, and therefore need not wonder about my salvation! And of course...maybe there would be someone on here that might find something useful in our posts. I can tell you are a brother in chirst, and i dont care if there are things we dont agree upon, (not that i have found many) but even if we did....we share the same DNA and we are in it for the long haul! And praise god....we are NOT alone!

God bless you!

Heneni

Words in a book tis all. And might I add....not a very "good" book nor is it a convincing book.....

Tis a very flawed book in many ways truthfully.

Do I need a savior? Nope... Your own book says that everyone is responsible for his or her own actions. The sins of the father will not be on the son nor the sins of the son be on the father....

I am responsible for me.

 

[challupa]

Words in a book tis all. And might I add....not a very "good" book nor is it a convincing book.....

Tis a very flawed book in many ways truthfully.

Do I need a savior? Nope... Your own book says that everyone is responsible for his or her own actions. The sins of the father will not be on the son nor the sins of the son be on the father....

I am responsible for me.

What did you get from that post you just quoted. Did you understand it as there is no hope for anyone who is born now because we didn't choose Jesus when he died? It's such a confusing post for me. I think she was saying everything is preordained. I have not heard that from a Christian before so it surprised me. Most of them say repent and you will be saved.

 

[Comicaze247]

What did you get from that post you just quoted. Did you understand it as there is no hope for anyone who is born now because we didn't choose Jesus when he died? It's such a confusing post for me. I think she was saying everything is preordained. I have not heard that from a Christian before so it surprised me. Most of them say repent and you will be saved.

It's the reason I don't belong to an organized faith anymore. Why slap yourself with a label when even different people under that same label disagree on fundamental things?

 

[challupa]

It's the reason I don't belong to an organized faith anymore. Why slap yourself with a label when even different people under that same label disagree on fundamental things?

I'm beginning to think there isn't one person in this world that interprets the things the same way. Religions are so open for interpretation that is why I gave up on them long ago. What did you get from that post?

 

[Comicaze247]

I'm beginning to think there isn't one person in this world that interprets the things the same way. Religions are so open for interpretation that is why I gave up on them long ago. What did you get from that post?

The same stuff I heard when I was still a devout Catholic. Then upon really thinking about it, it's also the same stuff that pushed me away from the church as well.

 

[Know the Truth]

The same stuff I heard when I was still a devout Catholic. Then upon really thinking about it, it's also the same stuff that pushed me away from the church as well.

I hate religion. Christianity is about a relationship with Jesus. The majority of "Christian" churches are into Religion rather than Relationship with God and don't even know the difference. It is an eternal difference.

 

[Magic Man]

Don't take it personally! You need a Savior because you are accountable to a holy God who must punish sin. You, like every other human on the planet, have sinned over and over. You can say you don't, but you didn't write the rules, because you didn't do the creating. If you don't receive the Savior (Jesus) who died for your sins, then you will be judged for your own life. You can be acquitted if you make the passing grade. Here it is: "Be therefore perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect."--Jesus.

If you choose to continue to say you don't need a savior, you have the privilege of saying that for another (subtract your age from 100 and insert here) years. Let us know how that works for you.

Thanks, but no thanks. I never really liked Pascal's Wager as an argument considering its many flaws. I also have no need of some fantasy savior.

 

[Magic Man]

You're the one who needs Santa Claus, bro, and he's not coming.

Um...no. I have no need for fairy tales (well, at least not taken as the literal truth).

 

[Know the Truth]

Thanks, but no thanks. I never really liked Pascal's Wager as an argument considering its many flaws. I also have no need of some fantasy savior.

I know all about Pascal's wager and did not have it in mind.

See you at the Throne.

 

[J Bryson]

Um...no. I have no need for fairy tales (well, at least not taken as the literal truth).

Please do not trivialize my deep and lasting faith in Santa Claus. If you want coal in your stocking this year, that's fine, but I'm going to be getting presents.

 

[Magic Man]

I know all about Pascal's wager and did not have it in mind.

See you at the Throne.

Wow, you're good. You only use two sentences in a post, and still manage to completely contradict yourself. Now that's talent. Well done.

 

[Magic Man]

Please do not trivialize my deep and lasting faith in Santa Claus. If you want coal in your stocking this year, that's fine, but I'm going to be getting presents.

You're right, I apologize. You enjoy those presents.

 

[gnostic]

Maybe I'm just having a bad day, but I am really getting tired of being labelled a sinner just because I don't believe in religions definition of God. Is it just me or is anyone else tired of the slogan, we are sinners and we must repent or be sent to hell for eternity.

Well, some Christians enjoyed the labels of sinners and applied it to themselves. I supposed it is in their masochist natures, when they called themselves sinners.

I supposed you have a bone to pick with them, when those called you, a "sinner". It does seem to be rude to point finger. I supposed they get a kick out of "judging" others. I'd called it them being insecure with their faith that they have to persecute others, and because they sadistically want us to burn in hell. Give them a chance, and they will bring their own torture and kindling. :tribal2:

I have been called a "sinner", twice last year, by only a couple of guys who simply visited my website, Dark Mirrors of Heaven. They don't like me writing about non-canonical (and heretic) scriptures, and comparing them with the canonical ones.

 

[challupa]

Well, some Christians enjoyed the labels of sinners and applied it to themselves. I supposed it is in their masochist natures, when they called themselves sinners.

I supposed you have a bone to pick with them, when those called you, a "sinner". It does seem to be rude to point finger. I supposed they get a kick out of "judging" others. I'd called it them being insecure with their faith that they have to persecute others, and because they sadistically want us to burn in hell. Give them a chance, and they will bring their own torture and kindling. :tribal2:

I have been called a "sinner", twice last year, by only a couple of guys who simply visited my website, Dark Mirrors of Heaven. They don't like me writing about non-canonical (and heretic) scriptures, and comparing them with the canonical ones.

Actually I hadn't even talked to the woman before the first time it happened. I was at a gathering with my family and people from their rural community. I don't live in the area. A woman who I had never known or spoken to before came up and told me how much happier my mother would be if I gave my life to Jesus and was not a sinner in the eyes of God. It took me by total surprise because I had never even met her. Obviously she must have been a friend of my mother's and they had been talking about my "lack of faith" I guess and she felt it was her duty to try and bring me to the "truth" so my mother would be happier. This is my birth mother I am talking about, I only found her about 11 years ago now. So you see it doesn't take me having a "bone to pick" to get called a sinner. The rest of the times were when they talk to me about why I don't believe what they believe and I do not bring it up. I just answer questions or change the subject.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

What did you get from that post you just quoted. Did you understand it as there is no hope for anyone who is born now because we didn't choose Jesus when he died? It's such a confusing post for me. I think she was saying everything is preordained. I have not heard that from a Christian before so it surprised me. Most of them say repent and you will be saved.

Well, I'm an atheist so I don't believe in gods. I view God of the bible/quran this way...If he exist then everything is submitting to his will. God is said to have created the universe so he/it exist outside of space and time thus created the universe, space and time. God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. These attributes means that it is his design for everything to be the way that it is. Whatever you did, do or don't do this God already knows and knew because this is how he created it. So with this in mind..the books that everyone profess salvation from, and what must be done in order to be in God's favour is futile.

I'm an atheist because I find the whole of religious dogmatic concepts to be uneeded. If this god is as described then what would be the point in creating any of this and placing the requirements on man as laid out in the book if he fully knows the out come of his creation. For me there are no gods thus I need no saviour. I can only be responsible for me. Also take note that we are being given the christian/judeo/islamic points of view when it comes to God and salvation but there are other faiths on the planet that have their own idea of what life is and how to live it. How do we validate or invalidate one over the other. Comparing the big three there are some striking differences and within each of the big three there are different sects with even more differences professing how it should be. Religion is man made....

 

[Wandered Off]

You have the choice and you will live with it forever. Forever, friend.

How can it possibly make sense for a being who loves us to force upon us a decision with such cataclysmic consequences that we have to make in the relative uncertainty also forced upon us? Uncertainty is implicitly forced upon us when faith is required.

We don't even know for certain there is such a decision on the table. Many of us reject the existence of such a silly decision in the first place, which is entirely different from making one of the choices allegedly offered.

Not only that, but we are dynamic beings - yet another reason holding us in perpetuity to a decision we were forced to make in relative uncertainty makes no sense.

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...ates/52078-heaven-hell-gated-communities.html

 

[Know the Truth]

How can it possibly make sense for a being who loves us to force upon us a decision with such cataclysmic consequences that we have to make in the relative uncertainty also forced upon us? Uncertainty is implicitly forced upon us when faith is required.

We don't even know for certain there is such a decision on the table. Many of us reject the existence of such a silly decision in the first place, which is entirely different from making one of the choices allegedly offered.

Not only that, but we are dynamic beings - yet another reason holding us in perpetuity to a decision we were forced to make in relative uncertainty makes no sense.

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...ates/52078-heaven-hell-gated-communities.html

It doesnt make sense either that God would crucify his own Son for people in rebellion against him, and that he would then rise from the dead.
These words were spoken by Paul who, again, had once persecuted those who proclaimed Christ:
"6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written:
“ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”"
And...
"18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”; 20 and again, “The LORD knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.”

 

[Know the Truth]

Well, I'm an atheist so I don't believe in gods. I view God of the bible/quran this way...If he exist then everything is submitting to his will. God is said to have created the universe so he/it exist outside of space and time thus created the universe, space and time. God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. These attributes means that it is his design for everything to be the way that it is. Whatever you did, do or don't do this God already knows and knew because this is how he created it. So with this in mind..the books that everyone profess salvation from, and what must be done in order to be in God's favour is futile.

I'm an atheist because I find the whole of religious dogmatic concepts to be uneeded. If this god is as described then what would be the point in creating any of this and placing the requirements on man as laid out in the book if he fully knows the out come of his creation. For me there are no gods thus I need no saviour. I can only be responsible for me. Also take note that we are being given the christian/judeo/islamic points of view when it comes to God and salvation but there are other faiths on the planet that have their own idea of what life is and how to live it. How do we validate or invalidate one over the other. Comparing the big three there are some striking differences and within each of the big three there are different sects with even more differences professing how it should be. Religion is man made....

The Bible boldly proclaims that everyone knows God exists. You do too. You choose to reject the subject. There were four football players off beach that set off Saturday on a fishing trip. They were going out 50 miles in a 21 foot boat. The waves grew to 14 feet. At 2 am they sent the Coast Guard out looking. A little while ago they found one of them clinging to the overturned boat. I guarantee you that if you had been floating in that cold black water, you would have renounced your alleged atheism. It appears only one of them made it, and I don't know why they weren't all rescued, but there are no atheists fighting in foxholes or or floating in high seas. One day you will be in those waters.