Tired of being called a sinner?

[Dirty Penguin]

Maybe I'm just having a bad day, but I am really getting tired of being labelled a sinner just because I don't believe in religions definition of God. Is it just me or is anyone else tired of the slogan, we are sinners and we must repent or be sent to hell for eternity. Why do people believe this stuff and why do they think it's alright to tell others this stuff too. Don't they see how hurtful and condescending this is? Sorry, but I'm really tired of the label my family and others give me and other's like me. Usually I'm pretty upbeat about it and let it slide off my back, but today it's getting to me a lot.

It's because they don't know any better.....

 

[challupa]

It's because they don't know any better.....

You're probably right.

 

[Know the Truth]

That does not make it right, just common.

In fact it does make it right. What is not right is speaking of someone in a condemning way as if you could never stoop to what they did or that you don't need a Savior.

 

[challupa]

In fact it does make it right. What is not right is speaking of someone in a condemning way as if you could never stoop to what they did or that you don't need a Savior.

Well then I guess the time has arrived that we need to agree to disagree. I see people as experiencing life in the best way they know how. We will make mistakes, some pretty major ones sometimes, but we all interact with our world in the way we know best. For that reason I don't view people as sinners. You do, and that's okay for you.

 

[Know the Truth]

Well then I guess the time has arrived that we need to agree to disagree. I see people as experiencing life in the best way they know how. We will make mistakes, some pretty major ones sometimes, but we all interact with our world in the way we know best. For that reason I don't view people as sinners. You do, and that's okay for you.

That sounds real nice, but let me ask you....when you take a test in school, who determines the passing grades, you or the professor?

 

[challupa]

That sounds real nice, but let me ask you....when you take a test in school, who determines the passing grades, you or the professor?

The professor. Even a professor allows everyone to try again and again until they get it. You may not get a passing grade that term, but you are allowed to try in the next one. He doesn't give you just one kick at the can and then damn you for eternity. I think placing God into this limited concept is not granting a loving being a very just persona. I feel we as humans are more determined to project our beliefs onto a god and it is us that have determined what we think s/he will or will not do. We don't need to believe in punishment for eternity. At least I don't. Just a personal belief.

 

[McBell]

In fact it does make it right. What is not right is speaking of someone in a condemning way as if you could never stoop to what they did or that you don't need a Savior.

Oh.
You mean like this post.

 

[Heneni]

ROLFMAO.

I forgive you for that too mestemia. :clapYou seem to be really good at piling up judgment for yourself. It is FAR easier for me to forgive you than it is for you to forgive me. Do you realise what that means?

Heneni

 

[McBell]

ROLFMAO.

I forgive you for that too mestemia. :clapYou seem to be really good at piling up judgment for yourself. It is FAR easier for me to forgive you than it is for you to forgive me. Do you realise what that means?

Heneni

 

[Comicaze247]

ROLFMAO.

I forgive you for that too mestemia. :clapYou seem to be really good at piling up judgment for yourself. It is FAR easier for me to forgive you than it is for you to forgive me. Do you realise what that means?

Heneni

LOL, wow.

So, I suppose acting morally superior is just another way to be loving and forgiving, hmm?

 

[challupa]

LOL, wow.

So, I suppose acting morally superior is just another way to be loving and forgiving, hmm?

Yes, sadly. This thread seems to have brought the best in people and the worst in people.

 

[Know the Truth]

The professor. Even a professor allows everyone to try again and again until they get it. You may not get a passing grade that term, but you are allowed to try in the next one. He doesn't give you just one kick at the can and then damn you for eternity. I think placing God into this limited concept is not granting a loving being a very just persona. I feel we as humans are more determined to project our beliefs onto a god and it is us that have determined what we think s/he will or will not do. We don't need to believe in punishment for eternity. At least I don't. Just a personal belief.

At which school did you experience that?
You see, our opinions ultimately won't matter, any more than my opinion of finance matters when Warren Buffet manages HIS money. The only thing you should care about if finding out if the Creator has spoken. He has, over a 1600 year period, culminating in Jesus Christ, and you can know it and enjoy it forever............but it is your choice.
Here is God's standard (He doesn't grade on the curve): "Be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect." (Jesus speaking in Matthew) Jesus wanted us not only to know the grading scale, but he knew that if we were honest we would say, "I'm not even close to being perfect. I need a Savior!" And then we would be in a postion to receive Him. But again, no one, not even God, will force you. You just have to live with the consequences, NOT as you see them, but as the Creator of the universe and Jesus have eternally set them. Comprende?

 

[challupa]

At which school did you experience that?
You see, our opinions ultimately won't matter, any more than my opinion of finance matters when Warren Buffet manages HIS money. The only thing you should care about if finding out if the Creator has spoken. He has, over a 1600 year period, culminating in Jesus Christ, and you can know it and enjoy it forever............but it is your choice.
Here is God's standard (He doesn't grade on the curve): "Be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect." (Jesus speaking in Matthew) Jesus wanted us not only to know the grading scale, but he knew that if we were honest we would say, "I'm not even close to being perfect. I need a Savior!" And then we would be in a postion to receive Him. But again, no one, not even God, will force you. You just have to live with the consequences, NOT as you see them, but as the Creator of the universe and Jesus have eternally set them. Comprende?

You have never had to retake a course?

You have made the assumption here that I do not have communication with my creator. I do not believe a god would stop communicating 2000 years ago. The god of the OT does not resemble the god of the NT or we would still be required to do blood sacrifices etc. Jesus obviously had the guts to change what he saw as wrong with the old god, maybe we need to have the guts once again to change what needs changing. I see that to be a kinder gentler understanding of what an all loving all merciful being would be like. As humanity grows up our relationship with a god should also be maturing. There are things we can understand better now than they could 2000 years ago. To stay in that mode is killing us. It is no longer prudent for the world to be stuck in 1st century mentalities in the 21st century when we have the ability to destroy ourselves and every thing else on this planet. If we don't start growing up and realizing we are all fighting over the same god, we won't be experiencing things in any recognizable form for long. While I do not believe in a personal god, I do believe we all have worth not just your selected few. That is my opinion

 

[Heneni]

LOL, wow.

So, I suppose acting morally superior is just another way to be loving and forgiving, hmm?

Is there anybody that can bring a charge against god? There is none. He has forgiven the whole world of all their sins. If there was any 'but god' left to be spoken, there is no reason for any 'buts' anymore. You have been forgiven god says, you have no excuse to have wandered away from him.

He has taken the moral superior road, by not keeping any offenses of mankind against them. And so i wont keep anything against mankind myself. If i forgive anybody their offenses, i am without guilt. Not they.

BUT, god says...vengeance is mine...I will repay. Repay what? Sins against god? No he has forgiven people their sins against him. But he will bring me justice as long as I have also forgiven mankind.

If somebody sins against me, it is not I who must repay them. Somebody else must do that. Who is qualified to judge mankind? God is. The wrath of god against mankind is because of their sins against his children and his creation. They will reap what they sowed. If they lived by the sword they will die by the sword. If i did not forgive, i would be guilty of the sin of unforgiveness and therefore will be judged myself. I do not want there to be anything against me on the day of judgement. So i will forgive as if my life depended on it. Is that the moral highground. YEs...its also the smart thing to do.

Heneni

 

[challupa]

Is there anybody that can bring a charge against god? There is none. He has forgiven the whole world of all their sins. If there was any 'but god' left to be spoken, there is no reason for any 'buts' anymore. You have been forgiven god says, you have no excuse to have wandered away from him.

He has taken the moral superior road, by not keeping any offenses of mankind against them. And so i wont keep anything against mankind myself. If i forgive anybody their offenses, i am without guilt. Not they.

BUT, god says...vengeance is mine...I will repay. Repay what? Sins against god? No he has forgiven people their sins against him. But he will bring me justice as long as I have also forgiven mankind.

If somebody sins against me, it is not I who must repay them. Somebody else must do that. Who is qualified to judge mankind? God is. The wrath of god against mankind is because of their sins against his children and his creation. They will reap what they sowed. If they lived by the sword they will die by the sword. If i did not forgive, i would be guilty of the sin of unforgiveness and therefore will be judged myself. I do not want there to be anything against me on the day of judgement. So i will forgive as if my life depended on it. Is that the moral highground. YEs...its also the smart thing to do.

Heneni

Question. Would you see any reason to forgive if you didn't fear the wrath of god?

 

[Heneni]

Question. Would you see any reason to forgive if you didn't fear the wrath of god?

While we were still sinners god forgave our sins. Did god fear the wrath of mankind so that he wanted to forgive them? Certainly not. Christians do not forgive because they are afraid of the wrath of god. A christian cannot come under the wrath of god. Many scriptures in the bible that makes that clear. Forgivenss is a character trait of god. If he could forgive me while i was still a sinner, then i can forgive others who dont love me.

Heaven is not my goal. Sonship is....and as the son forgave those who hurt him, beat him up, wipped him and crucified him, so can I.

We forgive because we trust that god is the fair judge. If i wanted retribution by my own hand, i would not trust god. If jesus wanted retrobution, none of us would have been raised from the dead.

I do not fear gods wrath, i fear loosing out on fellowship with him. If he said...heneni...forgive...then i shall forgive, lest i displease him, and my sin remove me from his continual presence and fellowship. I forgive for his sake, not my own. And he will bring me justice, not for his sake, but for my own.

Heneni

 

[challupa]

While we were still sinners god forgave our sins. Did god fear the wrath of mankind so that he wanted to forgive them? Certainly not. Christians do not forgive because they are afraid of the wrath of god. A christian cannot come under the wrath of god. Many scriptures in the bible that makes that clear. Forgivenss is a character trait of god. If he could forgive me while i was still a sinner, then i can forgive others who dont love me.

Heaven is not my goal. Sonship is....and as the son forgave those who hurt him, beat him up, wipped him and crucified him, so can I.

We forgive because we trust that god is the fair judge. If i wanted retribution by my own hand, i would not trust god. If jesus wanted retrobution, none of us would have been raised from the dead.

I do not fear gods wrath, i fear loosing out on fellowship with him. If he said...heneni...forgive...then i shall forgive, lest i displease him, and my sin remove me from his continual presence and fellowship. I forgive for his sake, not my own. And he will bring me justice, not for his sake, but for my own.

Heneni

Okay, but it still seems as though you forgive to receive a reward of some sort. Having said that, I guess we all do. It's just different rewards.

 

[Heneni]

Okay, but it still seems as though you forgive to receive a reward of some sort. Having said that, I guess we all do. It's just different rewards.

Yes, my reward is that i please god and that i remain in fellowship with him.

Is there any better reward then Gods fellowship?

If i loved him would i not obey his commandments? The act of forgiveness brings an internal reward. It bring peace with my god, and closeness to him.

Forgive those who willfully sin against you he said. If i love him, i will forgive nomatter what it costs me. It cost god his son to forgive me, shall i value my life more than his? No, but i know that he values mine more than his, otherwise he would not have given his, for mine.


Heneni

 

[Magic Man]

In fact it does make it right.

How do you figure?

What is not right is speaking of someone in a condemning way as if you could never stoop to what they did or that you don't need a Savior.

I don't need a savior, and I'm curious as to why you think I do.

 

[Magic Man]

At which school did you experience that?
You see, our opinions ultimately won't matter, any more than my opinion of finance matters when Warren Buffet manages HIS money. The only thing you should care about if finding out if the Creator has spoken. He has, over a 1600 year period, culminating in Jesus Christ, and you can know it and enjoy it forever............but it is your choice.
Here is God's standard (He doesn't grade on the curve): "Be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect." (Jesus speaking in Matthew) Jesus wanted us not only to know the grading scale, but he knew that if we were honest we would say, "I'm not even close to being perfect. I need a Savior!" And then we would be in a postion to receive Him. But again, no one, not even God, will force you. You just have to live with the consequences, NOT as you see them, but as the Creator of the universe and Jesus have eternally set them. Comprende?

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Santa Claus isn't real. :sorry1: