To The Anti Gay Religious

[dgirl1986]

first thing I saw.... -but I will continue to look into it -and the other

"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation."

Did you read the last sentence and the booklet?

 

[Etritonakin]

Did you read the last sentence and the booklet?

I read the last sentence -not the booklet yet.

I don't disagree with the sentence -though I would point out that it doesn't actually
say homosexuality cannot be a choice -or that people are born that way and there is nothing else to consider.

It says...

"most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation".

I'm saying -I think in agreement with the rest of what came before that sentence -that people become "oriented" by a great many factors before they know what the heck is going on.

Also.... before they could possibly make a choice.

Therefore, I could agree that due to a great many factors, a person could be in some way homosexually/bisexually oriented before they had any real choice in the matter.

This is not the same as saying they were born that way -that it is the only possibility -or that homosexuality cannot be a choice.

Choice requires the opportunity to choose. Ideally, it includes sufficient data in order to make an informed decision.

*****

If I had thought about a guy's fuzzy sweater (or whatever -I also had hugged guys before -so....) -then imagined what it would be like to hug someone in such a sweater -and all of a sudden there was a guy in the sweater -and all of the other stuff happened -I would not simply assume now that it was due to "homosexuality" -but I could be certain it was due to sexuality.

Technically, the thought could possibly be classified as homosexual in subject matter if I was hugging a guy -and perhaps even the whole experience could be classified as homosexual. However -it would in no way actually classify ME as homosexual or bisexual -though some WOULD classify me as such based on that alone.
It would classify me as sexual.

I believe -all else being equal -and have seen many things which support the idea -that a human being is potentially any kind of sexual -and becomes oriented -and sometimes reoriented -by many things -including choice.

It might be a simple coincidental experience which coupled a hug with a guy in my brain and produced weird feelings -which were never experienced before because I was less sexually developed/mature.

Those things coinciding would not necessarily be due to orientation, but could be a purely coincidental factor in my orientation.

One might say that the warm fuzzy tingly feeling would be because of something in my brain -and that pretty much must be true. However, it would not necessarily be something hardwired in my brain that makes me attracted to males in particular.

Now..... even if it could be proved that it ABSOLUTELY WAS initially hardwired -that what I believe about it was wrong, I, personally, would CHOOSE to be heterosexual because I identify as a male. I'm not trying to make the same choice for anybody else. I know enough about myself -and the subject -to honestly say that I could be blissfully happy.

You are certainly free to disagree or to think that I could not possibly know that.

I choose to define my sexuality -not be defined by things which happened before I knew what was happening. I choose to rule my own spirit and body -not be ruled by them. I have reprogrammed myself in many aspects of my life -and have found that the body follows the mind more than some would think possible -regardless of initial orientation.

While my sexual orientation is the same as what I would describe as my initial orientation -or my orientation at the time of first sexual thought -I have essentially disoriented and then reoriented myself. It just so happens that after much introspection, consideration, study, etc., etc., I choose to be heterosexual.

I will continue to consider the matter.


Again -I consider these things for my own sake -not to affect others. I believe them and I'm not telling anyone they have to.

 

[dgirl1986]

I give up Etritonakin, this seems to be turning into a game of word salad and I find myself repeating myself only for it to either be twisted to fit your ideas or you skip over them completely.

I am a perfect example of how you cant change your orientation, science just hasnt got the evidence for it yet. Doesnt meant that the absence of scientific evidence means that its changeable or chooseable.

 

[Etritonakin]

I give up Etritonakin, this seems to be turning into a game of word salad and I find myself repeating myself only for it to either be twisted to fit your ideas or you skip over them completely.

I am a perfect example of how you cant change your orientation, science just hasnt got the evidence for it yet. Doesnt meant that the absence of scientific evidence means that its changeable or chooseable.

I didn't mean to skip over the booklet -haven't had time -lots of things going on in my world -just wanted to address the first link first.

I am not commenting on your orientation. I don't know you. I am commenting on my orientation, orientation in general and my present thoughts concerning those things.

If you say that your orientation cannot and will not change, I accept it.

It is YOURS.

I RESPECT THAT.



I also acknowledge that I can be more than a little annoying and frustrating. I don't get invited to many parties.

I do apologize if I have been in any way unfair.

 

[dgirl1986]

I didn't mean to skip over the booklet -haven't had time -lots of things going on in my world -just wanted to address the first link first.

I am not commenting on your orientation. I don't know you. I am commenting on my orientation, orientation in general and my present thoughts concerning those things.

If you say that your orientation cannot and will not change, I accept it.

It is YOURS.

I RESPECT THAT.



I also acknowledge that I can be more than a little annoying and frustrating. I don't get invited to many parties.

I do apologize if I have been in any way unfair.

I just feel like we are going around in circles. No problem

 

[Etritonakin]

We were. That is to be expected from very different viewpoints -but is no less frustrating.

I have to live with my brain 24/7 -it goes in circles on its own -consider yourself lucky

 

[dgirl1986]

We were. That is to be expected from very different viewpoints -but is no less frustrating.

I have to live with my brain 24/7 -it goes in circles on its own -consider yourself lucky

Lol dont worry, mine hops from one obsession to another to another to another. I have so many hobbies I dont do because I have too many

 

[Majikthise]

I am an atheist, a husband, a father. The way you live your life is your business. Marriage is between a man and woman. Your sexual identity will always come before parenting. It's just a fact. Give it up, face reality.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Marriage is between a man and woman.

On what grounds?

Your sexual identity will always come before parenting.

Meaning what?

 

[Majikthise]

On what grounds?

Biological and cultural grounds.

Meaning what?

Meaning homosexuality is not conducive to self sacrifice that is required in raising children. Don't like my opinion as an experienced parent?
Eat a peach.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Meaning homosexuality is not conducive to self sacrifice that is required in raising children. Don't like my opinion as an experienced parent?
Eat a peach.

Just because you managed to ejaculate into a woman's vagina and one of your sperm made it to an egg, does not make you an authority on anything. Any old moron can reproduce. It doesn't take the slightest hint of intelligence or "self-sacrifice". That it's so easy for you heteros to mindlessly reproduce has obviously made you take the privilege for granted, as demonstrated by the veritable oceans of abused, neglected and abandoned children produced by straight people since the dawn of humanity. That in mind, other groups who are much more mindful and yearning for parenthood are much more deserving of the privilege that so many fail to take seriously.

Instead of trying to insult like a grade schooler, why don't you actually attempt to produce an argument? Otherwise, I'll just dismiss you as a buffoonish troll with nothing of substance to offer.

Your move.

 

[Majikthise]

Just because you managed to ejaculate into a woman's vagina and one of your sperm made it to an egg, does not make you an authority on anything. Any old moron can reproduce. It doesn't take the slightest hint of intelligence or "self-sacrifice".

Instead of trying to insult like a grade schooler, why don't you actually attempt to produce an argument? Otherwise, I'll just dismiss you as a buffoonish troll with nothing of substance to offer.

Your move.

You love love to render everything down to the basics because you have no idea of anything beyond your own selfish interests.
I've raised two individuals through grade school and i can attest that they rise beyond anything you would deign to offer.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You love love to render everything down to the basics because you have no idea of anything beyond your own selfish interests.
I've raised two individuals through grade school and i can attest that they rise beyond anything you would deign to offer.

Why are you being so immature and rude? You don't know me, and I definitely don't want to know you. You have offered no reasons as to why gays and lesbians should not be able to marry or to parent. In fact, the closest I've had to a father figure was a gay man who was my babysitter. From how you present yourself on this forum, he was certainly a higher caliber of human being than you are. I don't know what the hell your problem is, but you need to stow your little attitude. I feel bad for your children.

 

[Majikthise]

Why are you being so immature and rude? You don't know me, and I definitely don't want to know you. You have offered no reasons as to why gays and lesbians should not be able to marry or to parent. In fact, the closest I've had to a father figure was a gay man who was my babysitter. From how you present yourself on this forum, he was certainly a higher caliber of human being than you are. I don't know what the hell your problem is, but you need to stow your little attitude. I feel bad for your children.

You've no need for such platitudes toward my attitude. Your defensive posture speaks volumes.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You've no need for such platitudes toward my attitude. Your defensive posture speaks volumes.

I have nothing to be defensive about. :areyoucra Are you going to present an argument or not?

 

[Majikthise]

I have nothing to be defensive about. :areyoucra Are you going to present an argument or not?

I agree with you.
Any moron can reproduce.
But it does require self sacrifice to raise children, in direct opposition to what you stated.
There are times I don't really feel like playing catch in the back yard but I do it anyway because it is important. I have work to do but i have a tea party instead.
Homos are preoccupied with their own sexuality.
You are the buffoon.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I agree with you.
Any moron can reproduce.
But it does require self sacrifice to raise children, in direct opposition to what you stated.
There are times I don't really feel like playing catch in the back yard but I do it anyway because it is important. I have work to do but i have a tea party instead.
Homos are preoccupied with their own sexuality.

Gays are "preoccupied with their own sexuality"? Evidence? How are they more preoccupied with sex than straights? It's not gays that are breeding out of control, by the billions. It's not gays that subjugate women and mistreat children by the millions. It's not gays getting millions of abortions every year. Clean up your own damn glass house before throwing stones.

You have not demonstrated that gays and lesbians are not capable of being good parents. However, on the local news here, there's stories of straight people murdering, maiming and otherwise abusing their children on an almost daily basis. So why should heterosexuals as a class be specially privileged? They haven't proven themselves to be especially capable of better behavior in any area.

You are the buffoon.

Stop projecting and grow the hell up.

 

[Majikthise]

Gays are "preoccupied with their own sexuality"? Evidence? How are they more preoccupied with sex than straights? It's not gays that are breeding out of control, by the billions. It's not gays that subjugate women and mistreat children by the millions. It's not gays getting millions of abortions every year. Clean up your own damn glass house before throwing stones.

You have not demonstrated that gays and lesbians are not capable of being good parents. However, on the local news here, there's stories of straight people murdering, maiming and otherwise abusing their children on an almost daily basis. So why should heterosexuals as a class be specially privileged? They haven't proven themselves to be especially capable of better behavior in any area.



Stop projecting and grow the hell up.

Yes. I need to "grow the hell up".
It's really tragic that a differing opinion from that of your own , or your handlers, upsets you so greatly.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes. I need to "grow the hell up".
It's really tragic that a differing opinion from that of your own , or your handlers, upsets you so greatly.

Instead of continuing to try to turn this into a stupid flame war, why don't you stick to addressing the topic at hand? You were the one who got defensive and uppity right off the bat when I just asked you a couple of questions. Is explaining your position really that difficult?

"Handlers"? :areyoucra

 

[Majikthise]

Instead of continuing to try to turn this into a stupid flame war, why don't you stick to addressing the topic at hand? You were the one who got defensive and uppity right off the bat when I just asked you a couple of questions. Is explaining your position really that difficult?

"Handlers"? :areyoucra

It's not a war. The evidence is here, there, everywhere. You just choose to ignore it and start your own ranting when it is presented(not here of course but it's been laid out before).
I merely made a statement of my opinion at the outset of this exchange.
Presenting evidence does no good.
I'm unaffected by religious dogma and still see the truth. I've had plenty of arguements with theists who condemn homosexuality for religious reasons , but i draw the line at marriage and child rearing.