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To The Anti Gay Religious

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
I agree with you.
Any moron can reproduce.
But it does require self sacrifice to raise children, in direct opposition to what you stated.
There are times I don't really feel like playing catch in the back yard but I do it anyway because it is important. I have work to do but i have a tea party instead.
Homos are preoccupied with their own sexuality.
You are the buffoon.

I completely agree that one requires self sacrifice when one has kids. However, the only thing I won't sacrifice is my happiness. If I find myself getting depressed then my kids will have to wait on me to work on that. This usually is not a long wait. Kids need mentally healthy parents. Actually having kids had been so natural to where I am now that it improves my happiness.

But enough of me. You've made some assertions of homosexuals that I personally don't agree with. I'm just curious as to your experience with them to be able to draw such conclusions?
 
I completely agree that one requires self sacrifice when one has kids. However, the only thing I won't sacrifice is my happiness. If I find myself getting depressed then my kids will have to wait on me to work on that. This usually is not a long wait. Kids need mentally healthy parents. Actually having kids had been so natural to where I am now that it improves my happiness.

But enough of me. You've made some assertions of homosexuals that I personally don't agree with. I'm just curious as to your experience with them to be able to draw such conclusions?

I'll answer for sure, but i gotta get some sleep.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
It's not a war. The evidence is here, there, everywhere. You just choose to ignore it and start your own ranting when it is presented(not here of course but it's been laid out before).
I merely made a statement of my opinion at the outset of this exchange.
Presenting evidence does no good.
I'm unaffected by religious dogma and still see the truth. I've had plenty of arguements with theists who condemn homosexuality for religious reasons , but i draw the line at marriage and child rearing.

So you really have no argument and/or are just too chicken **** to back up your position? State your opinions as you please, but I have no idea where you got the notion that you don't have to defend them.

Well, okay then. Spout all the ridiculous nonsense you please, but don't think you have any credibility. "The truth". :biglaugh:
 

thau

Well-Known Member
The scientific evidence shows that medical
transition is the best treatment for transsexualism that we currently have since we cannot change the person's brain or mind sex…. Perhaps it's because you're not interested in viewpoints that deviate from your own opinions?
Science is clueless on the soul, on life after death, on God and eternal destinies. Perhaps in some ways I am more concerned for that transsexual's well being than science is. Perhaps they are better off becoming a girl, but then to leave them to their own whims after they leave the hospital is hardly the end of the story. You may be more content and at peace living a life of enjoying many gay partners and I may have more pleasure being in the arms of another man’s wife. But that temporary condition has eternal ramifications.

Thought so. You're not interested in facts, only in stale doctrines made up by people who are ignorant and fearful of the subject.
Oh, it is because these doctrines were formed centuries ago that they lose their usefulness and veracity and are now referred to as stale? Well I can see how modern technology and neo-paganism ideologies have brought such comfort and serenityto the inner self in this nation (billions of anti-depressants and millions of cases of neurosis notwithstanding). Stale St. Augustine said “our hearts will always be restless until the rest in God.” We all seek eternal peace and truth and hope. None of which you or science prescribes has a hint of a true remedy for that.


Because they surely are not going to find respite or truth in archaic doctrines that encourage suffering, reject treatment and could lead one to suicide.
Christianity does not reject medical care. To suggest becoming a truebeliever in the Christian faith increases the risk of suicide sounds preposterous to me. To suggest suffering is encouraged by the Catholic faith is false. To suggest suffering has no virtue, however, is equally false. Until one humbly accepts his faults, shortcomings and reliance upon the One who gave him life, he is playing a dangerous fool’s game. IMO
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
Science is clueless on the soul, on life after death, on God and eternal destinies. Perhaps in some ways I am more concerned for that transsexual's well being than science is. Perhaps they are better off becoming a girl, but then to leave them to their own whims after they leave the hospital is hardly the end of the story. You may be more content and at peace living a life of enjoying many gay partners and I may have more pleasure being in the arms of another man’s wife. But that temporary condition has eternal ramifications.

Oh, it is because these doctrines were formed centuries ago that they lose their usefulness and veracity and are now referred to as stale? Well I can see how modern technology and neo-paganism ideologies have brought such comfort and serenityto the inner self in this nation (billions of anti-depressants and millions of cases of neurosis notwithstanding). Stale St. Augustine said “our hearts will always be restless until the rest in God.” We all seek eternal peace and truth and hope. None of which you or science prescribes has a hint of a true remedy for that.

Christianity does not reject medical care. To suggest becoming a truebeliever in the Christian faith increases the risk of suicide sounds preposterous to me. To suggest suffering is encouraged by the Catholic faith is false. To suggest suffering has no virtue, however, is equally false. Until one humbly accepts his faults, shortcomings and reliance upon the One who gave him life, he is playing a dangerous fool’s game. IMO

You mentioned soul, after life, and God. Yes, science can't define that because it can't emperically observe it. Can't argue with you on that.

Your concern for transgenders has good intentions but I would say is best left to the individual and experts on the subject, unless you consider yourself an expert on male and female biology?

"Until one humbly accepts his faults, shortcomings and reliance upon the One who gave him life, he is playing a dangerous fool’s game. IMO"

This particular comment stuck out to me. Me being an atheist, I have a similar phrase but one without the definition of God. Until one accepts his faults and shortcomings, one simply cannot grow. If you have observed, I placed the control solely on the person as opposed to a combination of the person and God. I feel neither is wrong but showing you another perspective.

Although I believe in science, I don't believe in anti-depression medicine. I've tried some and all they did was numb me so I felt dead. I found my cure through cognitive training which was a different branch of science. But the key ideal was personal choice as to how I came to my cure.
 

Thruve

Sheppard for the Die Hard
Gays are "preoccupied with their own sexuality"? Evidence? How are they more preoccupied with sex than straights? It's not gays that are breeding out of control, by the billions. It's not gays that subjugate women and mistreat children by the millions. It's not gays getting millions of abortions every year. Clean up your own damn glass house before throwing stones.

You have not demonstrated that gays and lesbians are not capable of being good parents. However, on the local news here, there's stories of straight people murdering, maiming and otherwise abusing their children on an almost daily basis. So why should heterosexuals as a class be specially privileged? They haven't proven themselves to be especially capable of better behavior in any area.



Stop projecting and grow the hell up.

Frank, this may not be relevant, but have you ever wondered if gays were better off without rights that Heterosexuals and Heterosexual couples have?
Perhaps, any rights, other than discrimination, which is dwindling each and every decade anyway?


On topic: Personally, as a gay man, and as stated before, I WANT A SON SO BAD DUUUUDE. I feel like I have NOTHING to live for. Having a girl is fine by me too, for you feminists who think im discriminating xP. I want the sacrifices parents make, I want the responsibilities, But I also want the experience, the joys, the downs, the sadness, the greatness, and most importantly, someone to love and bring into the world, period. I want to take my son/daughter fishing, take them to disney, take them to lesser world countries to thicken the skin, show them reality, but to also let them dream of fairy tales. I told my BF this, and he looks at me like a chick given hes a Type A masculine poomouth. Yet, a man wanting a child is as normal and righteous as any other 'manly' virtue, so I don't take offense.


Then Reality comes along, and tells me given the current condition of society, our economics, our culture, our community at large, etc, that we are in no place to raise children as of yet. Some couples? Hell yea! Lets hope they are succesfull though, because the last thing the gay community needs atm is more blood spilled. Gay marriage would surely spill more blood too. Need. More. Time. Give it a few decades and gay couples/gay communities might be in a better place to support gay marriage and adoption/children, but as of late, the worlds not ready, were (most) are not ready for such rights. It'll end up more of a loss than a +. Others may disagree, but thats somewhat of my stance.
 
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suncowiam

Well-Known Member
Frank, this may not be relevant, but have you ever wondered if gays were better off without rights that Heterosexuals and Heterosexual couples have?
Perhaps, any rights, other than discrimination, which is dwindling each and every decade anyway?


On topic: Personally, as a gay man, and as stated before, I WANT A SON SO BAD DUUUUDE. I feel like I have NOTHING to live for. Having a girl is fine by me too, for you feminists who think im discriminating xP. I want the sacrifices parents make, I want the responsibilities, But I also want the experience, the joys, the downs, the sadness, the greatness, and most importantly, someone to love and bring into the world, period. I want to take my son/daughter fishing, take them to disney, take them to lesser world countries to thicken the skin, show them reality, but to also let them dream of fairy tales. I told my BF this, and he looks at me like a chick given hes a Type A masculine poomouth. Yet, a man wanting a child is as normal and righteous as any other 'manly' virtue, so I don't take offense.


Then Reality comes along, and tells me given the current condition of society, our economics, our culture, our community at large, etc, that we are in no place to raise children as of yet. Some couples? Hell yea! Lets hope they are succesfull though, because the last thing the gay community needs atm is more blood spilled. Gay marriage would surely spill more blood too. Need. More. Time. Give it a few decades and gay couples/gay communities might be in a better place to support gay marriage and adoption/children, but as of late, the worlds not ready, were (most) are not ready for such rights. It'll end up more of a loss than a +. Others may disagree, but thats somewhat of my stance.

Hi Thruve,
I have two kids. My first is a boy and my second is a girl. I really wanted a boy and my wife really wanted a girl so it worked out. I know I project myself into my kids. I want them to be more successful than me, to have a better life than me. I understand the significance of what I'm saying and that there will be pressure with all these projections so I am working out a balance between acceptance and guidance for my kids. It's just very human nature to want more for your kids.

As for as your situation, I can understand. I think I would be miserable now without my kids. This would be my deepest lost if I were to lose any of them. Parenthood just came so natural for me as if mother-nature just flipped a switch to turn it on. I don't see why that would be any different for homosexuals.
 

Awkward Fingers

Omphaloskeptic
"well I was GOING to keep my seat on that bus, then I realized, wouldn't that just cause a lot of hassle???
If black people start clamoring for equal rights, at this day and age, we might get a negative reception."
~ Rosa Parks
 

thau

Well-Known Member
Well I do appreciate the civility of your response. Just to follow-up slightly onpoints already established.

You mentioned soul, after life, and God. Yes, science can't define that because it can't emperically observe it. Can't argue with you on that.
Well science has never empirically seen a reptile grow wings and feathers either, nor have they observed an eyeball evolve from whence there was none but it is taught as fact. You are right, science is not in the business of proving God but from my experience they sure seem to be in the business of trying to disprove him.


Your concern for transgenders has good intentions but I would say is best left to the individual and experts on the subject, unless you consider yourself an expert on male and female biology?
I wouldn’t dream of protesting outside a doctor’s office to discourage some determined man from having hormone shots or whatever “transforms” him into a woman. But I just happen to believe God is the answer for their troubled souls, not allowing science to somehow “play God.” Nor should science be creating half man - half animal forms with their injections of human cells into pigs or sheep, etc.


This particular comment stuck out to me.Me being an atheist, I have a similar phrase but one without the definition of God. Until one accepts his faults and shortcomings, one simply cannot grow. If you have observed, I placed the control solely on the person as opposed to a combination of the person and God. I feel neither is wrong but showing you another perspective.
Your perspective and attitude is nothing I should take offense with. I wish you well. But as long as God exists then it behoovesa man to seek His help and His message. Plus there are many out there who cannot help themselves or be in control and that is where Christianity has selflessly applied its care for thousands of years. And in most cases without expecting conversions.


Although I believe in science, I don't believe in anti-depression medicine. I've tried some and all they did was numb me so I felt dead. I found my cure through cognitive training which was a different branch of science. But the key ideal was personal choice as to how I came to my cure.
Again, credit should be given to your approach. But what of all those who find no cure, whose life is nothing but years of sorrow or oppression? Just the bad breaks in the cycle of life and evolution? I cannot sign on to something that dour. Mankind is a million miles ahead of his closest relative in the animal kingdom and that does not add up for me. Evolution cannot bring on these miraculous changes without a supreme intelligence behind it. Science has not convinced me it is possible otherwise. That alone tells me there must be a loving God.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
Well I do appreciate the civility of your response. Just to follow-up slightly onpoints already established.

Well science has never empirically seen a reptile grow wings and feathers either, nor have they observed an eyeball evolve from whence there was none but it is taught as fact. You are right, science is not in the business of proving God but from my experience they sure seem to be in the business of trying to disprove him.

I wouldn’t dream of protesting outside a doctor’s office to discourage some determined man from having hormone shots or whatever “transforms” him into a woman. But I just happen to believe God is the answer for their troubled souls, not allowing science to somehow “play God.” Nor should science be creating half man - half animal forms with their injections of human cells into pigs or sheep, etc.

Your perspective and attitude is nothing I should take offense with. I wish you well. But as long as God exists then it behoovesa man to seek His help and His message. Plus there are many out there who cannot help themselves or be in control and that is where Christianity has selflessly applied its care for thousands of years. And in most cases without expecting conversions.

Again, credit should be given to your approach. But what of all those who find no cure, whose life is nothing but years of sorrow or oppression? Just the bad breaks in the cycle of life and evolution? I cannot sign on to something that dour. Mankind is a million miles ahead of his closest relative in the animal kingdom and that does not add up for me. Evolution cannot bring on these miraculous changes without a supreme intelligence behind it. Science has not convinced me it is possible otherwise. That alone tells me there must be a loving God.

If you believe me that science is but an observation of the observable universe, then the true goal of science is actually very neutral. Some could use science to for their own politics and I believe that is what you're referring to. For example, Mr. Stephen Hawkins. I'm a big fan of his but don't accept him just giving an opinion to the media without proper evidence. Very unfair to you. Also, I believe archaeologists dug up fossils indicating the existence of a reptile with wings. I wouldn't know any more than you here. You can do a search on Google and if you believe then that's up to you.

You have a point with ethics, but that is a very subjective. Different cultures, different religion, different countries, different individuals simply cannot define one set of rights and wrongs. This isn't between just science and religion. You might have a culture like Thailand that does accept more of transgenders. I wish I knew how to make this easier myself. :)

For simplicity, let me not discuss people with mental illnesses or disability. Let me just jump to my point if you will... I believe it is the responsibility of the individual to help himself first. To say that he is 100% dependent on something, means that he is powerless to do it on his own. He will always have tools and beliefs by his side but if one is unavailable or fails, he can find other means to better himself. I believe in free will so I believe man has will to achieve his goals simply through determination and hard work.

Science hasn't proven the non-existence of God but being the skeptic that I am, I simply choose to believe on what I can observe. I actually do have faith in my life, like faith in my family to lean on and so on. It's not on a grander scale though.
 
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Triumphant_Loser

Libertarian Egalitarian
But I just happen to believe God is the answer for their troubled souls, not allowing science to somehow “play God.” Nor should science be creating half man - half animal forms with their injections of human cells into pigs or sheep, etc.

Science should not "play God?" You mean like providing chemotherapy for cancer patients, AEDs to keep people from dying during cardiac arrest, vaccinations for life threatening illnesses, Pacemakers, organ transplants? Just hand em' a Bible and hope for the best? Yeah... see how well that works out for ya'.
 

thau

Well-Known Member
Science should not "play God?" You mean like providing chemotherapy for cancer patients, AEDs to keep people from dying during cardiac arrest, vaccinations for life threatening illnesses, Pacemakers, organ transplants? Just hand em' a Bible and hope for the best? Yeah... see how well that works out for ya'.

No, that's all well and good. The Bible has untold numbers of medicines we can use as well to heal. All natural and science like.

I mean like I said, like creating humanlike animals with injecting human cells into animals. With destroying fertilized embryos for the sake of research, those are human beings. With aborting life in wombs. With lying to us that there is no sign of intelligent design in the amazing structures of life. That has the effect of fooling people that there is no need for God and no evidence for God. That is a dangerous idea we can thank science for.
 

Triumphant_Loser

Libertarian Egalitarian
No, that's all well and good. The Bible has untold numbers of medicines we can use as well to heal. All natural and science like

None of the the things I've mentioned are "natural" either. I've never seen a natural kidney transplant before... or a natural blood transfusion... or natural dialysis.
 

vskipper

Active Member
This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.

The most beautiful system of the Sun, Planets and Comets could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent being. All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.

Source: Sir Isaac Newton Quotes
 

thau

Well-Known Member
None of the the things I've mentioned are "natural" either. I've never seen a natural kidney transplant before... or a natural blood transfusion... or natural dialysis.

Yes, a bit of a semantic argument there, but that was hardly the main points of my comments you chose to ignore.
 
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