To the Non Believers.

[DeitySlayer]

Where is your proof that Christians are dangerous?

As history demonstrates, it can cause, or can be used to cover, cases of violence, agression and general ****ing up of the world, e.g. Inquisition, use to justify slavery and imperialism, Crusades, used by the KKK, used by Hitler (motto: Gott mit uns (God with us)), etc.

You can't use non-belief in God to justify anything. Or at least no-one has done this.

 

[Autodidact]

I know this is ridiculous. Where is your proof that Christians are dangerous?

Have I ever said that Christians are dangerous? Can you quote the post where I said this? It doesn't sound like something I would say.

As I said I will show you mine if you show me yours:drool:

You started a thread. Your thread is about all the many "attack" threads against theists. I asked you to name one. You have not done so. Your entire thread is based on an unsupported assertion. Good job. What religion did you say you are?

 

[DeitySlayer]

Read the Book. If you really don't know, otherwise kiss my foot

I have, several times. It still doesn't explain why God suddenly transforms from a genocidal, wrathful pyschopath into a benevolent, loving figure.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As to willfully ignorant? For many yes, they dont even know if what is preached is in the bible. The OT is a exellent source for the Christian to get an idea of the direction their life should go but that is about it, all that killing need stay in the OT.

I think you'll find that your views on both pacifism and on the role of the OT are only held by a slim minority of Christians, including those who know the Bible. Why do you think this is?

It's fine if you've arrived at an interpretation that you feel comfortable with, but it seems a bit unreasonable to me for you to declare all other interpretations to be wrong.

 

[Archer]

As history demonstrates, it can cause, or can be used to cover, cases of violence, agression and general ****ing up of the world, e.g. Inquisition, use to justify slavery and imperialism, Crusades, used by the KKK, used by Hitler (motto: Gott mit uns (God with us)), etc.

You can't use non-belief in God to justify anything. Or at least no-one has done this.

Yeah but belief is no more dangerous then no belief and usually less dangerous. That is from historical evidence. It is across the spectrum we are killers, all of us, humanity. You cant distance yourself from that.

 

[Archer]

I think you'll find that your views on both pacifism and on the role of the OT are only held by a slim minority of Christians, including those who know the Bible. Why do you think this is?

It's fine if you've arrived at an interpretation that you feel comfortable with, but it seems a bit unreasonable to me for you to declare all other interpretations to be wrong.

I am going by what the book says. If you were correct then would you not be dead? Would not those evil Christians killed you and converted all to by the sword? Your logic is good but the flaw occurs when you apply it to reality.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am going by what the book says.

But "what the book says" is not one single thing. The Bible is often vague, figurative or conflicting. It often allows a range of interpretations without giving clear guidance on which one to choose.

If you were correct then would you not be dead? Would not those evil Christians killed you and converted all to by the sword? Your logic is good but the flaw occurs when you apply it to reality.

Why do you say that? There are more options besides "don't kill anyone ever" and "kill anyone who disagrees with you".

 

[DeitySlayer]

Yeah but belief is no more dangerous then no belief and usually less dangerous. That is from historical evidence. It is across the spectrum we are killers, all of us, humanity. You cant distance yourself from that.

How many theists do you think would kill if they didn't believe in a God?

 

[McBell]

I had the numbers of just the mass murders committed by the Godless posted somewhere in this thread.

Do you think those who claim a religious affiliation are actually religious people? I can say I am Methodist and I was baptized in a Methodist church but I never attended other than that. Sure there is a baptism certificate but am I a Christian? Never heard a sermon, never read the Bible. I guess by your definition I am.

I went on to become a crack addict and killed a man for some money in a robbery for drug money. When I am arrested and go before the magistrate I fill in the line that I am Methodist. AM I?

There is a big Gap between those who claim a faith and those who follow the Holy books of faith.

So I say the majority of crimes are committed by the Godless. Their lives speak for what they are no matter what they claim.

So in a nutshell you are saying that YOU get to choose who is and who is not godless?

Interesting take on the No True Scotsman Fallacy.

I find it rather interesting that you did not present the numbers or a link to them.
Are you?

 

[McBell]

And the numbers show ...

... with irrefutable numbers...

... And my numbers say so. The numbers you can find will say so.

You go on and and on and on about these numbers but have not presented them.
Nor have you presented a link to them.
No, so far all I have gotten from from you when asking for these numbers is some line of crap on how you get to decide who is and who is not godless.

So either present these damn numbers or shut the **** up about them.

 

[Archer]

So in a nutshell you are saying that YOU get to choose who is and who is not godless?

Interesting take on the No True Scotsman Fallacy.

I find it rather interesting that you did not present the numbers or a link to them.
Are you?

I did and I am not looking back through this thread.

 

[Archer]

You go on and and on and on about these numbers but have not presented them.
Nor have you presented a link to them.
No, so far all I have gotten from from you when asking for these numbers is some line of crap on how you get to decide who is and who is not godless.

So either present these damn numbers or shut the **** up about them.

I did present some! So you shut the **** up dammit.

Some on post 161

 

[McBell]

I did present some! So you shut the **** up dammit.

Some on post 161

A government deaths site?
That is your source?


Do you do all your "research" this sloppily?

Hells bells, you even state in post 161 that some else do the math!

So much for "irrefutable".

Now, where are the numbers killed by theists?
How can you possibly know if the "godless" have killed more if you do not know how many the theists have killed?

 

[Falvlun]

I doubt you will find any. I also know of no new testament text that condones the act of murder and therefore a Christian can not kill in the name of God because there is no support for it.

Do you know why Moses has horns?

A word was mistranslated, and hey presto! The Bible stated that Moses had horns and with whom was Michaelangelo to argue?

The point being, the Bible, while it may indeed be the infallible Word of God, is very much translated and interpreted by fallible humans. Your interpretation tells you that God does not want you to kill anyone ever. Other interpretations tell other sects that God wants them to kill those who defy God.

You don't kill people because of your interpretation of the Bible; other people kill because of their interpretation of the Bible.

They kill for their own reasons just like every other killer. If not God then something else.

Their own reasons. Which include, and are probably even dominated by, the belief that God condones and wants them to do those actions. Without that reason-- their own reason-- they might not, in some cases profoundly would not, do those actions.

Most Christians would claim that belief in Christianity has caused bad people to become good: Hey look! He used to be a druggie and now he comes to church every Sunday! Hey look! She used stand on the street corner and now she teaches Sunday school! If mere belief in and the practice of a religion, is strong enough to make a person do good-- even despite their natural tendency towards doing bad-- then it follows that the belief and practice of a religion is strong enough to make a person do evil-- even despite a natural tendency towards non-violence.

 

[Falvlun]

ANow, where are the numbers killed by theists?
How can you possibly know if the "godless" have killed more if you do not know how many the theists have killed?

It has been pointed out to him ad nauseum that he needs two numbers-- the number killed in the name of atheism and the number killed in the name of religion-- in order to substantiate his claim.

Tumbleweed posted some pretty dire numbers as to the latter. See posts 246 - 248, 252, 254, and 256. Archer's only response was that they don't come close to the 20th Century's "big 3" (by which I assume he is referring to Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot), though the numbers seem to tell a different story.

 

[McBell]

It has been pointed out to him ad nauseum that he needs two numbers-- the number killed in the name of atheism and the number killed in the name of religion-- in order to substantiate his claim.

Tumbleweed posted some pretty dire numbers as to the latter. See posts 246 - 248, 252, 254, and 256. Archer's only response was that they don't come close to the 20th Century's "big 3" (by which I assume he is referring to Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot), though the numbers seem to tell a different story.

Wait...
Archer is claiming that Hitler ran a "godless" killing of the Jews campaign?

 

[Falvlun]

Wait...
Archer is claiming that Hitler ran a "godless" killing of the Jews campaign?

I'm pretty sure he is... Mind boggling, ain't it?

 

[Archer]

You freaking people just don't get it. I have had one person post numbers other than myself. I thanked him.

How the hell is this any kind of debate when I need to present opposing evidence. No one has done anything but deny and get defensive. There has been no real defense to my position that it is the people that do these things and it is spread out in an unbalanced way. Yes there have been atrocities carried out by Christian leadership with their lemming followers, same with Islam. The Godless heathen leaders of the world have done the same in the name of Man (greater numbers). So we are all guilty by association or we can stop this labeling. Stop the name calling. Oh wait I am talking to a bunch of mindless baby killers, how many babies have been killed because of this secular Atheist world view?!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Oh wait I am talking to a bunch of mindless baby killers, how many babies have been killed because of this secular Atheist world view?!

None. An anti-religious worldview is, by definition, not secular.

 

[Archer]

None. An anti-religious worldview is, by definition, not secular.

Smart ***

Really though if it were up to the christian right abortion would stop (my true feelings follow, though I am against it from a personal perspective), we would have all of these unwanted kids out there potentially causing problems, drugs, crime more teen pregnancies rinse repeat . I say if people want abortions let them have them. Less trouble later. It will cost me money if abortion is stopped.

Are you denying that the pro-death movement is a big thing for Atheists?

I am not saying all Atheists are pro choice, just guilty by association. Just like every person of faith is dangerous, in the eyes of many atheists.