To the Non Believers.

[McBell]

Then show me another source that has done the same type of comparison my source did. The like has quite a bit of information none of which I have seen refuted with a link. Yes numbers were posted in a response but they still support me so is anyone going to refute my claim with aome sort of evidence or are you just going to discount and deny as usual.

Your source was NOT a comparison.
It merely presented governmental killings.
Some of which were atheist, some of which were religious, some of which are still in dispute as to whether they were religious or not.

Your source merely lists governmental killings.

Did I mention that your source only lists GOVERNMENTAL killings?

 

[Archer]

Your source was NOT a comparison.
It merely presented governmental killings.
Some of which were atheist, some of which were religious, some of which are still in dispute as to whether they were religious or not.

Your source merely lists governmental killings.

Did I mention that your source only lists GOVERNMENTAL killings?

And you present nothing.

 

[Sententia]

And you present nothing.

You are still drinking the Kirk Durston kool-aid? Whats wrong with Kirk Cameron mate?

Quit playing with scissors and do some research. Others have responded many, many times to Kirk. Your theism vrs atheism death study... How do you research? Do you form a conclusion then google until you find something that supports it and then stop? Do you think other people may have investigated this? What are you adding?

In any event... Theism is a hodge podge of various beliefs many of which advocate that it is ok to kill people in this life to attain afterlife benefits. Other immoral aspects are given to us from christian scientists who pray their children recover from disease rather then letting Scientific Medical science have a go. In stark contrast Atheism is a mere disbelief in god. I know atheists who believe in black magic and if people think I am hard on mormonism you should try telling me in person that you cast a wealth spell and a love spell and show me your collection of lucky charms. hee hee.

I don't want to get off topic though... You started this as a premise that atheists are hard on believers but then point to some random study and an article by Durston. Then you seem to want to beat people over the head that you already linked it and cant be bothered to link it again in this thread. So then we have to wade through 50 pages to find your supposed Word from God indisputable evidence. And with 10 mins of googling you can find responses... but even if we count stalin... who I personally would not... But whatever...
The Teapot Atheist: Anonymous wanted a body count total, so he will get one

What other people in thread have been trying to explain to you is that atheism is not a belief system. You are not justified morally for killing anyone because you are an atheist. As a Theist though, not all, but some theists are rewarded, justified and spurred on to kill people in order to secure afterlife goodies.

 

[Archer]

You are still drinking the Kirk Durston kool-aid? Whats wrong with Kirk Cameron mate?

Quit playing with scissors and do some research. Others have responded many, many times to Kirk. Your theism vrs atheism death study... How do you research? Do you form a conclusion then google until you find something that supports it and then stop? Do you think other people may have investigated this? What are you adding?

In any event... Theism is a hodge podge of various beliefs many of which advocate that it is ok to kill people in this life to attain afterlife benefits. Other immoral aspects are given to us from christian scientists who pray their children recover from disease rather then letting Scientific Medical science have a go. In stark contrast Atheism is a mere disbelief in god. I know atheists who believe in black magic and if people think I am hard on mormonism you should try telling me in person that you cast a wealth spell and a love spell and show me your collection of lucky charms. hee hee.

I don't want to get off topic though... You started this as a premise that atheists are hard on believers but then point to some random study and an article by Durston. Then you seem to want to beat people over the head that you already linked it and cant be bothered to link it again in this thread. So then we have to wade through 50 pages to find your supposed Word from God indisputable evidence. And with 10 mins of googling you can find responses... but even if we count stalin... who I personally would not... But whatever...
The Teapot Atheist: Anonymous wanted a body count total, so he will get one

What other people in thread have been trying to explain to you is that atheism is not a belief system. You are not justified morally for killing anyone because you are an atheist. As a Theist though, not all, but some theists are rewarded, justified and spurred on to kill people in order to secure afterlife goodies.

I actually have and the numbers are actually all over the place. One estimate I saw was 890,000,000 killed the name of Gods. We will probably never know the true numbers but either way they are high. One fact I think we will all agree on is we, as a species, are dangerous.

"As a Theist though, not all, but some theists are rewarded, justified and spurred on to kill people in order to secure afterlife goodies." I disagree no individual has the right and none is justified or vindicated unless the one they are killing is such a threat with a proven record of crimes that their death has been deemed necessary by the majority.

I don't agree with the totals but I know they are high on both sides. You made good argument compared to some of the others I have seen and I commend you on it. Still I need to find some more information. One thing is clear, I don't even like being in the same species as some of these monsters, Theist or Atheist.

I have been told many times in this thread that I miss points but I do not.

My main point. All people kill, religious or not. It is clear that theists and atheists kill and the reasons are either irrelevant or we are all guilty by association. Also one thing I did not bring up because I did not think of it at the time is at one point all claimed to be theists and most people today are in one way or another. If we go back and level some things based on religion and population we should find that nothing changes faith or not. We could argue this for the rest of our lives but I think most points are valid in this thread. I am just glad some non religious Atheists have been kind enough not to shove around the religious zealot rhetoric that I see so many claimed Atheists throw around and present some real numbers. Much better than denial.

As I have said religious people on average are no more a danger than those without it.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

During the Dungan Revolt in China (1862-1877), the Hui and other Chinese Muslim groups started a war to establish a Muslim emirate in western China. The casualties are estimated at around 8 million people.
The indigenous genocide here in America by Christian settlers starting in 1492 caused 50 million deaths AT THE VERY LEAST.
In Turkey from 1914-1918(at this point in time Turkey was still the Ottoman Empire), At least a million Armenians were massacred during another genocide.
Your "atheist" Catholic buddy Hitler killed 11 million people.
Currently in Darfur there is a genocide being perpetrated by the Arabs in the area. At least 300,000 have died.
Between 1986 and 1989 Saddam Hussein, the Muslim ruler of Iraq, massacred about 200,000 Kurds in assaults on Kurdish villages.
In 1971 in Bangladesh, the Pakistani army massacred at least a million Bengali people.

None of the numbers are dead accurate because of the sheer number of casualties; some may be much higher. But either way, to say that more murders have been committed by atheists is ridiculous; you so far have only named 2 events.

 

[McBell]

And you present nothing.

I have pointed out the FACT that you have NOT presented enough evidence to make a full argument, let alone prove anything.

Yet you claim to have presented irrefutable evidence.


There is no need for me or anyone else to present anything simply because you have not yet presented a full argument.

 

[McBell]

I actually have and the numbers are actually all over the place. One estimate I saw was 890,000,000 killed the name of Gods. We will probably never know the true numbers but either way they are high. One fact I think we will all agree on is we, as a species, are dangerous.

"As a Theist though, not all, but some theists are rewarded, justified and spurred on to kill people in order to secure afterlife goodies." I disagree no individual has the right and none is justified or vindicated unless the one they are killing is such a threat with a proven record of crimes that their death has been deemed necessary by the majority.

I don't agree with the totals but I know they are high on both sides. You made good argument compared to some of the others I have seen and I commend you on it. Still I need to find some more information. One thing is clear, I don't even like being in the same species as some of these monsters, Theist or Atheist.

I have been told many times in this thread that I miss points but I do not.

My main point. All people kill, religious or not. It is clear that theists and atheists kill and the reasons are either irrelevant or we are all guilty by association. Also one thing I did not bring up because I did not think of it at the time is at one point all claimed to be theists and most people today are in one way or another. If we go back and level some things based on religion and population we should find that nothing changes faith or not. We could argue this for the rest of our lives but I think most points are valid in this thread. I am just glad some non religious Atheists have been kind enough not to shove around the religious zealot rhetoric that I see so many claimed Atheists throw around and present some real numbers. Much better than denial.

As I have said religious people on average are no more a danger than those without it.

It is rather sad that you still have to back peddle even after moving your goal posts.

 

[Archer]

It is rather sad that you still have to back peddle even after moving your goal posts.

I am not backing up. All I have seen from most posts that are on the other side of this issue are useless comments and comic relief.

 

[Magic Man]

You will notice, Archer, that these posts are referring to the radical and extremist elements of religion who use their holy texts to justify atrocity; rather than an attack on religion as a whole. You will also note that most of these posts are responses to you claiming that atheism leads to murder and atrocities.

There is one point on which you're wrong. Clearly, he will not notice.

 

[Autodidact]

Then show me another source that has done the same type of comparison my source did. The like has quite a bit of information none of which I have seen refuted with a link. Yes numbers were posted in a response but they still support me so is anyone going to refute my claim with aome sort of evidence or are you just going to discount and deny as usual.

Just for starters, I believe someone said your source includes abortions? Is that correct? If so your numbers are completely wrong, because in the U.S. the majority of women having abortions are Christian. So move those over to the other column.

And clearly, no question, Hitler goes in the Christian column as well. Now how do your numbers look?

 

[McBell]

I am not backing up. All I have seen from most posts that are on the other side of this issue are useless comments and comic relief.

Well, until such time as you finish your argument so that there is something to actually debate other than your unsubstantiated claims...

 

[AxisMundi]

It is accepted that the greatest killers in history were Godless. That is an indisputable fact. It is accepted that many things have been done by organized religion that are just as atrocious but on a smaller scale, another indisputable fact.

There is nothing wrong with my numbers or one of you would have debunked it. It is just easier to dismiss. People can claim all they want and say that Atheism is not the cause and that is fine but Atheists can be monsters and have had more blood spilled at their hands than Christians and Muslim's together. Sure you can say it was not in the name of Atheism but they were Atheists and that means that you are guilty by association, just as you claim all religious people are dangerous. Remember weak minded irrational idiotic behavior is a human trait not just a trait of the religious. You can say all that killing in the name of God and I can say all that killing in the name of the state. IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE, ALL TYPES KILL, MAN IS BLOODTHIRSTY.

It is "accepted" only by the bible-thumpin' crowd.

Firstly, since the Iron Curtain has fallen, the estimates of people killed under the communist regime range has fallen greatly, to around 12 million max. Considering that Christianity has had two thousand years to make war, invade areas of primitive aboriginal people, Crusade, INquasition, and pretty much murder anyone who wouldn;t convert, your religion is stil far ahead in the death toll.

Secondly, Stalin did not begin attacking religion until religion began to erode his absolute authority. Even then, only public displays of worship were forbidden. Stalin did not do what he did "in the name of godlessness".

China has operated pretty much the same way.

However, not one inhabited continent has been spared atrocity by Christianity, and the systematic attempt to erase older cultrues, religions, and deities conducted by your religious ancestors.

 

[TheHappyTraveler]

Mohammed traveled and got a loose interpretation of Judaism and Christianity. He then got a "vision" from the angel gabriel. He then went to his home town to preach what he was "told". He was then banned out of his own home town because he was preaching against their religion. he then traveled to another town (who's name escapes me) where he then gained power. He waged an all out war against his home town because they were practicing heresy. He then took control of Israel,"the holy land", and let's just say he was incredibly unforgiving to the jews. The religion of islam had eventually spread to northern Africa, India, and parts of Asia.

Prior to ALL of that were the records of war and battle from, can anybody guess, The Bible. there are numerous accounts of bloodshed right there from The Bible.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Put it all in context. Back to the point though stand your ground with some data. I want those totals please. And yes I still appreciate your attempt at getting the information I am too bust ATM to do the math.

Basically, you want to compare the numbers of those killed in the name of one god or another, and those killed in the name of atheism.

I am not going to count up all the human lives lost to the name of religion in the past 5000 years. But I can say with quite a bit of confidence that the total number of those killed in the name of atheism would not equal up to 1% of those killed in the name of some god or gods.

 

[S-word]

Basically, you want to compare the numbers of those killed in the name of one god or another, and those killed in the name of atheism.

I am not going to count up all the human lives lost to the name of religion in the past 5000 years. But I can say with quite a bit of confidence that the total number of those killed in the name of atheism would not equal up to 1% of those killed in the name of some god or gods.

To the Atheists and agnostics, who believe that the mind/spirit that develops in the human body, from the information and experiences that are taken in through the senses of that body, ceases to exist with the death of the physical body. To them the death of their body is the end of their life, and so to them, it will occur, that as the mind that survives the death of body believes, so will that mind experience.

But to the true believers, who do not fear man, who can kill their body, but can then do more to them, who are "The minds or spirits" that had developed within those bodies, they can rest in peace in the assurance that they will be reborn again. And when God raised up a rod, such as Hitler to chastise his chosen nation, the true believer knows that those Jews who fell asleep in righteousness are not dead, but are at peace, awaiting their resurrection.

But I wouldn’t bother counting those who have been killed in the name of God until after the great tribulation, when the Saviour of the Israelites, comes to save his chosen people.

The war to end all wars is not between God and Satan, but between the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and the nations of the world, who would drive Israel into the sea and into oblivion if not for his intervention.
Concerning the war to end all wars; Joel 3: 14-17; “Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake, but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy and foreigners will never again conquer it. (This has not occurred as yet).
Numbers 24: 17, “A king, like a bright star, will arise in that Nation. Like a comet he will come from Israel. He will strike the leaders of Moab and beat down all the people of Seth. He will conquer his enemies in Edom and make their land his property. While Israel continues victorious. The Nation of Israel will trample them down and wipe out the last survivors.” most Christians somehow (which is beyond my ability to comprehend) believe that this prophecy was fulfilled 2000 years ago when the Lord sent, in his name “Who I Am,” the young Israelite Jesus, to do and say only that which he was commanded by the Lord who said; “They will look upon me “Who I Am,” and see the one who they pierced, and they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only child etc.”

Isaiah 63: 1-6, “Who is this coming from the city of Bozrah in Edom? Who is this so splendidly dressed in red, marching along in power and strength?” It is the Lord, powerful to save, coming to announce his victory. “Why is his clothing so red, like that of a man who tramples grapes to make wine?”
The Lord answers, “I have trampled the nations like grapes and no one came to help me. I trampled them in my anger, and their blood has stained all my clothing. I decided that the time to save my people had come; it was time to punish their enemies, I was amazed when I looked and saw that there was no one to help me. But my anger made me strong, and I won the victory myself. In my anger I trampled whole nations and shattered them, I poured out their life’s blood on the earth.”

See Zechariah 14. The Lord will come to fight for his people Israel as he has fought in times past and from within the inner most sanctuary of his tabernacle (The kingdom of God is within you) which temporary tabernacle is the body of mankind, he will fight the enemies of Israel; those Nations who surround Jerusalem in their attempt to drive God's chosen people into the sea. The Lord will throw them into a state of total confusion, and the weapons of destruction with which they would destroy Israel, he will cause them to turn upon their own allies and they shall suffer a terrible disease, the soft tissue such as their eyes and tongues will melt in their sockets, and their radiated flesh cooked to the bone will slide from their bodies while still standing. Then all the surviving Nations will send their representatives each year to Jerusalem in the land of Israel, to worship and pay tribute to the Lord who will rule the whole world with justice and woe betide those who refuse to do so.

Then all the godless people of this world, and all those, who in their cathedrals, of stone, marble or crystal, who sing and dance with their eyes and hands raised to the heavens in worship of a god they neither know or understand, will bow down and worship the God of Abrahams descendants.
As I Have said, I would leave the finale count until after the Lord has been established upon his throne in Jerusalem.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Nothing like falling back on the old..."you'll see in the end" standard.

But since you did not address your initial challenge of "body counts" and those killed in the "name"of Atheism, I assume what you are saying is that, indeed, those who will die in the supposed tribulation will make your God the sure winner in total humans killed.

Now that's something to be proud of....

 

[Autodidact]

What cracks me up is thinking you can threaten us with an entity we don't believe exists. Ooh, the boogey-man will get me. I'm scared.

 

[Archer]

And you ask why the faithful and the Atheists seem to be at odds all of the time. There is truth but for some reason it is argued by both sides that it is not. Numbers don't lie but it seems that we cant even get a set of numbers that are kosher.

It is a lost cause and it will cause problems until the end.

Atheists are just as bad as they claim everyone else is, it is part of being human I guess.

 

[McBell]

Numbers don't lie...

Is this why you have not as yet presented the number killed by theists?
Is it that you just dislike the number, are you afraid of the number, what?

 

[McBell]

It is a lost cause and it will cause problems until the end.

Especially when you keep harping about numbers you have not presented.