To the Non Believers.

[Kilgore Trout]

By analogy, then, debate as a court of law isn't about the lawyers and the clients but justice.

Now there's some wishful idealism.

 

[MSizer]

Now there's some wishful idealism.

I can see it now: "Your honor, I demand that the jury ignore the smoking gun, as it would unquestionably terminate the debate over my client's guilt".

 

[Autodidact]

A lie is a lie but when one is called a liar because of differing beliefs that is just ridiculous.

I only call people a liar when they are caught lying. For some reason certain believers, notably YECs, do this a lot.

 

[Badran]

Their religious beliefs and their irrational thinking are one and the same. It is religious leaders telling them not to let their children receive the drug.

I completely understand how you link religious beliefs with irrationality.

But i think irrationality is the main problem. They put too much trust on their religious figures, and do not think for themselves to realize that their religious leaders are wrong in their unfounded claim, then what is really the main issue of criticism is that general thinking behavior that encourages people to be so reliant on others to tell them what to think.

However i understand your frustration or anger towards the fact that religion somehow plays a role in this, but i think it is not the main problem.

 

[dogsgod]

It's pretty difficult to "attack" anybody on a forum unless they participate. If you don't like a thread, don't reply to it. Problem solved.

It's not that simple. Some people need to be reminded of the lake of fire, otherwise it could be too late for them once they find themselves roasting for all eternity. Do you think it's all fun and games?

 

[JustWondering2]

Why is it a constant believer bashing around here?

Why? Are you looking for understanding of what is incomprehensible to you?
Are you missing something in your life and feel that you must make others like you?

I have heard religion blamed for everything but the people are individuals and think for themselves. I say dont blame the faith or the believers just take it out on the individuals.

Please explain to me why the constant attack on religion.

I've always wondered just exactly what a "believer" really is?

Of the ones I've meet, the words to describe who they really are I can't use on this site. IMHO

Believer = Better than any non-believer always. I once went to a seminar at a local Bible church that concentrated on the teathings of the "Golden Rule". I was very impressed with what the teacher had to say until his last sentance "..... as long as they are a believe"! What a crock of ****! That's exactly what I stood up and said to him. Of coarse I was promtly escorted out the door after that.

 

[Autodidact]

If i could just point out that this village's problem would be putting too much trust in those who they listen to.

If those telling them aren't religious figures, then i guess the village's real problem would be irrationality which like you said before is the main cause for such behavior.

So the main thing to criticize would be their irrational thinking and not their religious beliefs.

The parents of 24,000 children in northern Pakistan refused to allow health workers to administer polio vaccinations last month, mostly due to rumours that the harmless vaccine was an American plot to sterilise innocent Muslim children.The disinformation - spread by extremist clerics using mosque loudspeakers and illegal radio stations, and by word of mouth - has caused a sharp jump in polio cases in Pakistan and hit global efforts to eradicate the debilitating disease.

uk guardian

O.K. this is the sort of thing that infuriates me and drives me to "attack." Science makes progress to alleviating human suffering. We almost had this disease eradicated. And stupid religious superstition throws it away and causes actual suffering my actual people, most of them Muslim. It's evil, pure and simple. I'm not going to not talk about it, or "respect" it, just because the people doing it are acting on behalf of their religion.

The World Health Organisation (WHO) recorded 39 cases of polio in Pakistan in 2006, up from 28 in 2005. The disease is concentrated in North-West Frontier Province, where 60% of the refusals were attributed to "religious reasons". The scaremongering and appeals to Islam echoed a similar campaign in the Nigerian state of Kano in 2003, where the disease then spread to 12 polio-free countries over the following 18 months. Pakistan is one of just four countries where polio remains endemic. The others are Nigeria, India and Afghanistan....But some brave women were uncowed by the extortion or demagoguery. Up to 200 babies a day are vaccinated at the Khyber teaching hospital in Peshawar, where burka-clad women arrive with children in their arms. Some arrive in secret, slipping into the clinic in defiance of male relatives who oppose vaccination. "One woman told me, 'My husband is illiterate. He has no idea how important this vaccine is,'" said Muhammad Islam, a male nurse....Some linked the attack to a fatwa issued in Dara Adam Khel, a lawless town famous for its gunsmiths, just before Christmas. A cleric named Mufti Khalid Shah declared a fatwa on employees of the UN, WHO and all other foreign organisations. "Killing their employees is in line with the teachings of jihad in Islam," said a notice.

These people are evil, period.

 

[Archer]

I've always wondered just exactly what a "believer" really is?

Of the ones I've meet, the words to describe who they really are I can't use on this site. IMHO

Believer = Better than any non-believer always. I once went to a seminar at a local Bible church that concentrated on the teathings of the "Golden Rule". I was very impressed with what the teacher had to say until his last sentance "..... as long as they are a believe"! What a crock of ****! That's exactly what I stood up and said to him. Of coarse I was promtly escorted out the door after that.

I can work with this. So if I am understanding you correctly you are lumping people of faith in the God of Abraham (as well as others) into one group because you have had some bad experiences. That is perfectly logical. I think of the KKK who perceived threats from everyone who was not like them. Killing blacks and all.

Your mentality seems to show exactly what you don't like. Should you not rise above these irrational ignorant people and set an example of compassion and understanding? I mean they are incapable in your eyes as well as the eyes of many here.

 

[Badran]

I really see what you are saying. The thing is, these problems in my opinion is caused by 2 things:

1) The fact that most people are irrational, depend on (Political, religious, and sometimes even celebrities) to tell them what to do. It's a combination of ignorance and misplaced trust.

2) The sad fact, that most religious figures (clerics, scholars) happen to have one thing in common, that they almost know nothing outside the limit of their studies in religion, and that some of them is just evil, and oppressive for psychological reasons i can't claim to understand.

These cases just show flaws in societies, especially the undeveloped or backward or 3rd world countries. Not flaws in religions.

 

[MSizer]

I can work with this. So if I am understanding you correctly you are lumping people of faith in the God of Abraham (as well as others) into one group because you have had some bad experiences. That is perfectly logical. I think of the KKK who perceived threats from everyone who was not like them. Killing blacks and all.

Your mentality seems to show exactly what you don't like. Should you nor rise above these irrational ignorant people and set an example of compassion and understanding? I mean they are incapable in your eyes as well as the eyes of many here.

:no: Well then apparently you're not understanding correctly at all, because you've just cited examples that are the exact opposite of what he did.

 

[JustWondering2]

I can work with this. So if I am understanding you correctly you are lumping people of faith in the God of Abraham (as well as others) into one group because you have had some bad experiences. That is perfectly logical. I think of the KKK who perceived threats from everyone who was not like them. Killing blacks and all.

Your mentality seems to show exactly what you don't like. Should you nor rise above these irrational ignorant people and set an example of compassion and understanding? I mean they are incapable in your eyes as well as the eyes of many here.

Are you comparing me to a member of the KKK? I have a great deal of compassion and understanding in my heart. One difference between myself and those I spoke of, I'm genuine they are fake and shallow. After busting my butt for them as soon as i need a hand they all disappear, because they see me as a non-believer, because I question the 100% literal interpretation of the Bible. Some good folks they are! I stick with my real friends, they're all atheist and can be trusted.

 

[Archer]

:no: Well then apparently you're not understanding correctly at all, because you've just cited examples that are the exact opposite of what he did.

I think it had to do with the believer = comment. So I think I hit the nail on the head. And TBH I have seen a lot of fear mongering in this thread about how believers are irrational and ignorant. The the conclusion is made that believers are dangerous. From that and many of the posts in this thread I see implications of eradication of faith.

 

[Archer]

Are you comparing me to a member of the KKK? I have a great deal of compassion and understanding in my heart. One difference between myself and those I spoke of, I'm genuine they are fake and shallow. After busting my butt for them as soon as i need a hand they all disappear, because they see me as a non-believer, because I question the 100% literal interpretation of the Bible. Some good folks they are! I stick with my real friends, they're all atheist and can be trusted.

Just don't lump all believers together. Trust me I have no real use for Churches and such.

 

[Sunstone]

A lie is a lie but when one is called a liar because of differing beliefs that is just ridiculous.

Granted.

 

[Autodidact]

I can work with this. So if I am understanding you correctly you are lumping people of faith in the God of Abraham (as well as others) into one group because you have had some bad experiences. That is perfectly logical. I think of the KKK who perceived threats from everyone who was not like them. Killing blacks and all.

Your mentality seems to show exactly what you don't like. Should you not rise above these irrational ignorant people and set an example of compassion and understanding? I mean they are incapable in your eyes as well as the eyes of many here.

Wow, his point flew right over your head, and is about the opposite of what you got. What he's saying is that the believer was wrong in categorizing all unbelievers as people who don't need to be treated well.

 

[Autodidact]

I really see what you are saying. The thing is, these problems in my opinion is caused by 2 things:

1) The fact that most people are irrational, depend on (Political, religious, and sometimes even celebrities) to tell them what to do. It's a combination of ignorance and misplaced trust.

2) The sad fact, that most religious figures (clerics, scholars) happen to have one thing in common, that they almost know nothing outside the limit of their studies in religion, and that some of them is just evil, and oppressive for psychological reasons i can't claim to understand.

These cases just show flaws in societies, especially the undeveloped or backward or 3rd world countries. Not flaws in religions.

sorry, when religious leaders commit atrocities in the name of their religions, it's a flaw in the religion. There is no religion aside from what religious people believe, write, say and do. That's what religion is.

 

[Wotan]

"I'm not going to not talk about it, or "respect" it, just because the people doing it are acting on behalf of their religion."

I would rephrase this to:

I AM going to critique it and I AM going to disrespect it and I AM gong to call it EVIL BECAUSE it is medieval superstition that is at the root of this behavior.

More.

This kind of thing is particularity repulsive because they are using the fruits of science loudspeakers and cars to defeat scientific progress. And not just to prevent a new gizmo but to prevent improvements in children's health.

 

[JustWondering2]

Wow, his point flew right over your head, and is about the opposite of what you got. What he's saying is that the believer was wrong in categorizing all unbelievers as people who don't need to be treated well.

Thank you Auto! I think you're the only one that got that part of what I was trying to say.

I grew up very poor (and white) in Texas. I remember clearly as a child of 6 or 7 walking down the else of a nearby church with my sisters and hearing the whispering and seeing the fingers pointed at us, by the beleivers by the way!

To be honest I've met many more "non-believers" that were good and honest people than so called "believers". Nence the question.

 

[Archer]

Wow, his point flew right over your head, and is about the opposite of what you got. What he's saying is that the believer was wrong in categorizing all unbelievers as people who don't need to be treated well.

What does believer = mean then? I think he can speak for himself and has! He does not need you to explain what he means.

 

[JustWondering2]

oh and as far as me lumping. Hey I can't help it, because 90% of the "believers" I've met in my life of 57 years now have fallen into the same catagory believers = arogant, my beliefs are better than yours..... I don't know personally anyone on RF so I don't include them. I'm just saying IMHO