Transgender opinions

[libre]

Do you agree that a school district should then tell the parents if a child is changing gender at school?

No.
If an LGBT child does not want their parents to know, it is for a reason.

I know many people who were disowned by their parents for being gay. I'm certain that there are parents who would do such to their transgender children as well, or other mistreatment.

Simply put, outing a child to their parents is unempathetic, short-sighted and dangerous.

 

[Argentbear]

This thread started out after my original post the posted telling me there are very few Trans cases in teens. Why did I read about laws in TX to make it illegal for underage because of all the tr and kids. There would not be any need for those laws if we had almost no Trans under agers.

The laws serve as a rallying point for conservatives and a means to open the door to more discriminatory legislation. Trans people are a very small minority with little or no political clout to provide protection, they are just the current target of groups needing a villain to rally the troops.
These laws serve a practical purpose for Republicans. They allow conservative state legislatures to create a show in attacking the “woke left” and ensure evangelical voters show up to vote. The laws also serve to attack and harass trans people. The anti-trans attacks in state legislatures is escalating at a volatile time. Trans Americans are four times more likely to be victims of violent crime than their cisgender peers, according to a 2021 study. And trans youth are 12 times as likely to be targeted for violence.
“These lawmakers want to homogenize the lives that people are living, and they have this very small-minded idea of who people are and how people should look, live their lives, and should think. There is an intentional effort to use misinformation and disinformation to deceive folks who don’t know any trans, nonbinary, or queer people personally to perpetuate harm and dissuade folks from living honest and true and accurate lives.“ Tori Cooper, the director of community engagement for the Human Rights Campaign

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

No.
If an LGBT child does not want their parents to know, it is for a reason.

I know many people who were disowned by their parents for being gay. I'm certain that there are parents who would do such to their transgender children as well, or other mistreatment.

Simply put, outing a child to their parents is unempathetic, short-sighted and dangerous.

I find this to be hypocritical by a lot of people. They want the government to stay out of the decisions by parents, doctors and kids on transgender issues but when it comes to informing a parent of their child's disforia they want government to make decisions for the child, like not telling parents. What happened to let the parents and doctors make the right decision for the child? Why do teachers and administrator get a say in the medical and mental decisions for the parents when they have no idea what the outcome will be?

 

[libre]

I find this to be hypocritical by a lot of people. They want the government to stay out of the decisions by parents, doctors and kids on transgender issues but when it comes to informing a parent of their child's disforia they want government to make decisions for the child, like not telling parents. What happened to let the parents and doctors make the right decision for the child? Why do teachers and administrator get a say in the medical and mental decisions for the parents when they have no idea what the outcome will be?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
Teachers don't get any say in medical decisions for students, period.

If a student comes out to a teacher, it's just for emotional support or wanting to use a different set of pronouns. There's no adverse outcome for respecting the child's confidentiality here.

 

[crossfire]

I find this to be hypocritical by a lot of people. They want the government to stay out of the decisions by parents, doctors and kids on transgender issues but when it comes to informing a parent of their child's disforia they want government to make decisions for the child, like not telling parents. What happened to let the parents and doctors make the right decision for the child? Why do teachers and administrator get a say in the medical and mental decisions for the parents when they have no idea what the outcome will be?

If a transgender child fears telling their parents, don't you think they at least deserve some counselling to discover why? Once the reason is discovered, then they can go from there, according to the findings.

 

[icehorse]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
Teachers don't get any say in medical decisions for students, period.

If a student comes out to a teacher, it's just for emotional support or wanting to use a different set of pronouns. There's no adverse outcome for respecting the child's confidentiality here.

I think that the claim that socially transitioning has no adverse outcomes is a claim that requires really strong evidence.

 

[Argentbear]

I find this to be hypocritical by a lot of people. They want the government to stay out of the decisions by parents, doctors and kids on transgender issues but when it comes to informing a parent of their child's disforia they want government to make decisions for the child, like not telling parents.

no they want the adults in the school to be able to look at each kid as an individual and with them discuss if, when and how to tell their parents.

Basically what is being said is that the government needs to be hands off in this area.

What happened to let the parents and doctors make the right decision for the child? Why do teachers and administrator get a say in the medical and mental decisions for the parents when they have no idea what the outcome will be?

teachers and admins don't have any say in medical and mental decisions, that is the point

 

[Argentbear]

I think that the claim that socially transitioning has no adverse outcomes is a claim that requires really strong evidence.

No one is talking about transitioning. The discussion is about the laws now passed in several states to force school personal to out kids even if that outing could endanger the child


And to suggest transitioning has adverse outcomes requires some actual evidence

 

[libre]

I think that the claim that socially transitioning has no adverse outcomes is a claim that requires really strong evidence.

A student added or took away the letter S from their pronouns!!!!! Sound the alarm! Contact the parents!

But seriously, if you have any evidence to the contrary feel free to present it.
I don't think I need to produce strong evidence to explain why we don't need a pronoun alarm. It's a silly proposition.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How did this happen if there were so few Trans teens they wouldn't be passing laws like this.

Bigotry. Like the nonsense about litter boxes in schools.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When children are being harmed it is appropriate for the government to step in. Do you agree?

Do you agree that a school district should then tell the parents if a child is changing gender at school?

It isn't up for laymen to decide what medical procedures are harmful.
And no the second. If the child isn't communicating to the parents there is a reason and this creates a safetu concern.

 

[icehorse]

If a transgender child fears telling their parents, don't you think they at least deserve some counselling to discover why? Once the reason is discovered, then they can go from there, according to the findings.

Can you define what you mean by a "transgender child"? Do you mean a child who is experiencing gender dysphoria?

 

[Argentbear]

Can you define what you mean by a "transgender child"? Do you mean a child who is experiencing gender dysphoria?

Gender dysphoria is an anxiety disorder that affects about 15% of trans people at some point in their lives. It is not transgenderism

 

[icehorse]

Gender dysphoria is an anxiety disorder that affects about 15% of trans people at some point in their lives. It is not transgenderism

So can you define "transgender child"?

 

[BlueIslandGirl]

When you tell a child they can change their 'gender' it's not just a lie.
It's multiple insidious lies that will corrode mental stability over time.

These are lies:
1) That they can change sex.
2) That words change reality.
3) That the drugs and surgeries are not experiments.
4) That their healthy body needs to fixed altered or hidden.
5) That body modification & cosmetic surgery will lead to inner happiness.
6) That gender identity is more important than sex.
7) That everyone believes in gender identity.
8) That obsessing about how others see you is healthy.
9) That others are obliged to believe what you do.
10) That your mental stability depends on others using the language you want.
11) That you own your pronouns.
12) That you can compel the speech of others.
13) That if others don't use the language you want it is so devastating you will want to die.
14) That threatening to harm yourself if others don't agree is justified.
15) That excessive self absorption & rumination leads to discovery of your authentic happy self.
16) That there is a 'you' seperate from your body.
17) That you are seperate from the child you were before & mentioning them will harm you.
18) That your parents never really knew you until now.
19) That adults who will not go along with your demands do not love or understand you
20) That those who say what you want to hear are the ones who love you most.
21) That you are only safe around people who agree with you.
22) That your feelings are all that matters.
23) That you can consent to being sterilised when you cannot imagine what this really means.
24) That you can understand the implication of loss of sexual function despite not yet being sexually developed.
25) That your emerging sexuality is not linked to the confusion you are feeling.
26) That your difficult life experiences are unrelated to your gender distress.
27) That puberty is dangerous for you instead of a natural process of your healthy body.
28) That these decisions will not impact on your potential to find an intimate partner as an adult.
29) That this is a spontaneous discovery of your true identity and not a cultural phenomenon.
30) That your mental stability depends on the validation of every person you meet for the rest of your life.

What cruel and terrible lies to tell to children.
Particularly when claiming moral virtue while you lie to them.
Or when it's your job to protect them.

Lies by Claire McGuiggan, child psychologist

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

When you tell a child they can change their 'gender' it's not just a lie.
It's multiple insidious lies that will corrode mental stability over time.

These are lies:
1) That they can change sex.
2) That words change reality.
3) That the drugs and surgeries are not experiments.
4) That their healthy body needs to fixed altered or hidden.
5) That body modification & cosmetic surgery will lead to inner happiness.
6) That gender identity is more important than sex.
7) That everyone believes in gender identity.
8) That obsessing about how others see you is healthy.
9) That others are obliged to believe what you do.
10) That your mental stability depends on others using the language you want.
11) That you own your pronouns.
12) That you can compel the speech of others.
13) That if others don't use the language you want it is so devastating you will want to die.
14) That threatening to harm yourself if others don't agree is justified.
15) That excessive self absorption & rumination leads to discovery of your authentic happy self.
16) That there is a 'you' seperate from your body.
17) That you are seperate from the child you were before & mentioning them will harm you.
18) That your parents never really knew you until now.
19) That adults who will not go along with your demands do not love or understand you
20) That those who say what you want to hear are the ones who love you most.
21) That you are only safe around people who agree with you.
22) That your feelings are all that matters.
23) That you can consent to being sterilised when you cannot imagine what this really means.
24) That you can understand the implication of loss of sexual function despite not yet being sexually developed.
25) That your emerging sexuality is not linked to the confusion you are feeling.
26) That your difficult life experiences are unrelated to your gender distress.
27) That puberty is dangerous for you instead of a natural process of your healthy body.
28) That these decisions will not impact on your potential to find an intimate partner as an adult.
29) That this is a spontaneous discovery of your true identity and not a cultural phenomenon.
30) That your mental stability depends on the validation of every person you meet for the rest of your life.

What cruel and terrible lies to tell to children.
Particularly when claiming moral virtue while you lie to them.
Or when it's your job to protect them.

Lies by Claire McGuiggan, child psychologist

Citing one and only one "child psychologist" who happens to agree with your position, and implying that therefore your position is the only correct one, appears to me to be special pleading. Psychologists, like everybody else, are individuals -- they have their own biases and core beliefs, and these can affect their judgment as easily as our biases and beliefs affect ours.

I much prefer looking for consensus where it can be found. There are, I know for a fact, many very happy and contented people who have transitioned, and who were extremely unhappy before transitioning. How does just saying "it's all lies" explain them?

 

[Argentbear]

So can you define "transgender child"?

a child who is trans.

 

[Argentbear]

When you tell a child they can change their 'gender' it's not just a lie.

just like the lie that anyone is saying you can change gender

It's multiple insidious lies that will corrode mental stability over time.

These are lies:
1) That they can change sex.
2) That words change reality.
3) That the drugs and surgeries are not experiments.
4) That their healthy body needs to fixed altered or hidden.
5) That body modification & cosmetic surgery will lead to inner happiness.

Happiness and Mental Health in Pre-Operative and Post-Operative Transsexual People by Elahe Fallahtafti et all 2019 fount that 97% of post operative trans people were significantly happier

6) That gender identity is more important than sex.
7) That everyone believes in gender identity.

Pretending something doesn't exist won't make it go away.

8) That obsessing about how others see you is healthy.

neither is obsessing over those who are different.

9) That others are obliged to believe what you do.

Irony

10) That your mental stability depends on others using the language you want.

More irony

11) That you own your pronouns.
12) That you can compel the speech of others.
13) That if others don't use the language you want it is so devastating you will want to die.
14) That threatening to harm yourself if others don't agree is justified.
15) That excessive self absorption & rumination leads to discovery of your authentic happy self.

is threatening those you don't agree with acceptable?

16) That there is a 'you' seperate from your body.

most people call it a soul

17) That you are seperate from the child you were before & mentioning them will harm you.
18) That your parents never really knew you until now.
19) That adults who will not go along with your demands do not love or understand you

Trans children are 800 times more likely to physically abused. IF you are abusing a child because they don't conform then it's a safe bet you don't love your child.

20) That those who say what you want to hear are the ones who love you most.
21) That you are only safe around people who agree with you.
22) That your feelings are all that matters.
23) That you can consent to being sterilised when you cannot imagine what this really means.

Good thing it doesn't happen

24) That you can understand the implication of loss of sexual function despite not yet being sexually developed.

Good thing that doesn't happen either

25) That your emerging sexuality is not linked to the confusion you are feeling.

You are the one confused about trans people

26) That your difficult life experiences are unrelated to your gender distress.

the difficulties experienced by trans people is is entirely related to people who choose to hate them and lie about them

27) That puberty is dangerous for you instead of a natural process of your healthy body.
28) That these decisions will not impact on your potential to find an intimate partner as an adult.
29) That this is a spontaneous discovery of your true identity and not a cultural phenomenon.
30) That your mental stability depends on the validation of every person you meet for the rest of your life.

Some fine examples of lies and hate

What cruel and terrible lies to tell to children.
Particularly when claiming moral virtue while you lie to them.

yet here you are telling all these lies

Or when it's your job to protect them.

they need protection form people who hate them.

Lies by Claire McGuiggan, child psychologist

best known for her junk science claims

 

[BlueIslandGirl]

Citing one and only one "child psychologist" who happens to agree with your position, and implying that therefore your position is the only correct one, appears to me to be special pleading. Psychologists, like everybody else, are individuals -- they have their own biases and core beliefs, and these can affect their judgment as easily as our biases and beliefs affect ours.

I much prefer looking for consensus where it can be found. There are, I know for a fact, many very happy and contented people who have transitioned, and who were extremely unhappy before transitioning. How does just saying "it's all lies" explain them?

I thought this forum was for people to share their opinions, others to read them, and to make up their own mind. Why can't I share something I happen to agree with? Isn't that the whole point? If it's not then what's the point of having forums at all? I posted something I agree with. You disagree.

Also, I don't hate anyone. I feel very sorry / pity for people who hate their bodies so much they want to hurt themselves with drugs and unnecessary surgeries. That's not "hate". We can disagree about things without "hating", right? Or at least I'd hope so.

 

[icehorse]

a child who is trans.

What does "a child who is trans" mean? Is it the same as "transgender"? If so then asking "what does a child who is transgender mean" is the same question. thanks.