Transgenders

[Shadow Wolf]

@shadow wolf, if you don't mind me asking, have you transitioned at all or do you strictly have to hide your identity from your family?

I am just starting to transition. As of now I am only out to a few people, but sometime within the next few months I will be coming out to my family. They aren't going to like hearing it, but as I mentioned not knowing where I am or what happened to me would be much harder on them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I see one walking around occasionally. It wears a Catholic schoolgirl getup, pigtails and all. I feel bad for it sometimes, but there's only so much one can do for the mentally ill.

FYI, "it" is an extremely derogative word to use. Since this individual seems to be a female, then she, woman, her, etc., and words that you would use to describe any other woman are appropriate and are far less degrading than "it." And being a transsexual is NOT a mental illness (Yes, I will argue against the DSM, which at one point in time also included homosexuality as a mental illness but that was excluded decades ago).

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I'm confused how a transexual could really hide their adopted identity. Like if a guy is gay, his appearence is often indistinguishable from straight guys and is only distinguishable if the guy decides to be flamboyant about his sexuality. I would think that if a guy decides to become a transexual that the wig and high heels would give him away pretty quickly.

 

[Penumbra]

I'm confused how a transexual could really hide their adopted identity. Like if a guy is gay, his appearence is often indistinguishable from straight guys and is only distinguishable if the guy decides to be flamboyant about his sexuality. I would think that if a guy decides to become a transexual that the wig and high heels would give him away pretty quickly.

Research indicates that gender identity forms in very early years. This is true for transgendered people as well as the 99+% of the rest of us that take for granted that our gender identity matches our physical sex.

The point is, someone doesn't just "decide" to become transsexual. They may decide to transition to their target gender, which means coming out and living as the gender that they identify as, but this transition would be meant to relieve years or decades of gender dysphoria. It's sometimes done as a last resort to suicide because obviously the discrimination, emotional/social difficulties, legal difficulties, economic cost, and medical challenges are a huge journey that nobody would rationally want to face if given a better alternative.

For example I knew someone in high school that transitioned from female to male. But he felt from the time he was very little that he was male and was suicidally depressed until he transitioned, although he put up a pretty good facade through school. I speculated that she (now a he) was a lesbian or something but didn't really know at the time. He hid his identity and identified as a woman until like age 20 or so, when he came out as having a male gender identity. I don't know if he did cross dressing to act as a male alone while he was still a female or not, but he wasn't publicly male. After transitioning it was no longer a secret; he identified as male, looks male, acts socially male (which he basically already did anyway), and is much happier.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Research indicates that gender identity forms in very early years. This is true for transgendered people as well as the 99+% of the rest of us that take for granted that our gender identity matches our physical sex.

The point is, someone doesn't just "decide" to become transsexual. They may decide to transition to their target gender, which means coming out and living as the gender that they identify as, but this transition would be meant to relieve years or decades of gender dysphoria. It's sometimes done as a last resort to suicide because obviously the discrimination, emotional/social difficulties, legal difficulties, economic cost, and medical challenges are a huge journey that nobody would rationally want to face if given a better alternative.

For example I knew someone in high school that transitioned from female to male. But he felt from the time he was very little that he was male and was suicidally depressed until he transitioned, although he put up a pretty good facade through school. I speculated that she (now a he) was a lesbian or something but didn't really know at the time. He hid his identity and identified as a woman until like age 20 or so, when he came out as having a male gender identity. I don't know if he did cross dressing to act as a male alone while he was still a female or not, but he wasn't publicly male. After transitioning it was no longer a secret; he identified as male, looks male, acts socially male (which he basically already did anyway), and is much happier.

You've got a long way to go to convince me that someone who was pumped full of hormones and had their genitalia mutilated in order to look like a different sex is now happy with themselves.

 

[LuisDantas]

You've got a long way to go to convince me that someone who was pumped full of hormones and had their genitalia mutilated in order to look like a different sex is now happy with themselves.

By the time they decide that they want to do that, there is no doubt whatsoever in their minds that they are happier that way.

It does happen, and rather clearly so. I have seen it.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

By the time they decide that they want to do that, there is no doubt whatsoever in their minds that they are happier that way.

It does happen, and rather clearly so. I have seen it.

You really don't think that alot of people go into a surgery thinking it'll do one thing for them but come away with the realization that it didn't have the desired effect upon their self image? A person who is even desperate enough to consider mutilating themselves in order to feel better about who they are seems to me like a person whose real problems are in the heart and mind, not with the body.

 

[LuisDantas]

It is not a matter of what I think, Peacemaker, but rather of whether I believe what I saw happen. I don't believe it is possible. I know that it happens, and that it is a dire need for many.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

It is not a matter of what I think, Peacemaker, but rather of whether I believe what I saw happen. I don't believe it is possible. I know that it happens, and that it is a dire need for many.

Exactly how many transexuals do you know? One would think that you must know half the transexuals in Brazil to be able to feel confident enough to call it an impossibility.

 

[LuisDantas]

Exactly how many transexuals do you know? One would think that you must know half the transexuals in Brazil to be able to feel confident enough to call it an impossibility.

I was stepfather of a 14-years old FTM for over a year, and I know an adult MTF as well.

In any case, isn't you the one saying that it is an impossibility? When I said that I don't believe it is possible to be happier after sex change surgery, it was because I know for a fact that it is, and very much so. My friend actually had to put her life in risk in order to get her surgery.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I was stepfather of a 14-years old FTM for over a year, and I know an adult MTF as well.

In any case, isn't you the one saying that it is an impossibility?

I said that the real problem is in the heart and head. Carving up the body doesn't treat that. Do we really all need to be doctors to see that the kind of people we are talking about are in serious need of psychological help?

 

[LuisDantas]

I said that the real problem is in the heart and head. Carving up the body doesn't treat that. Do we really all need to be doctors to see that the kind of people we are talking about are severely disturbed?

I edited my previous post, but just to be explicit: the problem is definitely treated by bodily changes. You ought to do yourself a favor an actually make acquaintance of a few transexuals. They deserve a lot of consideration for their plight.

 

[LuisDantas]

Do we really all need to be doctors to see that the kind of people we are talking about are severely disturbed?

If you mean that they do not need to change the sexual orientation of their bodies, than sorry, you are quite simply wrong, so very much wrong. Worst of all, you run the risk of causing terrible sorrow with your assumption.

 

[Penumbra]

You've got a long way to go to convince me that someone who was pumped full of hormones and had their genitalia mutilated in order to look like a different sex is now happy with themselves.

Based on the fact that you opened with a "question" but then went into say something as hateful and hurtful as, "It's a fake vagina, as fake as any plastic sex toy available.", I see that your primary intention was to troll them rather than to actually question, so I have little reason to discuss much with you at all.

From my perspective, the opinions about LGBT topics of an evangelical religious man online have little standing compared to decades of psychological research and the many transgender people I have known.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Based on the fact that you opened with a "question" but then went into say something as hateful and hurtful as, "It's a fake vagina, as fake as any plastic sex toy available.", .

You can't be serious. I guess if people want to live in some imaginary little world what can you do?

 

[Penumbra]

You can't be serious.

I was thinking along similar lines regarding your posts.

I guess if people want to live in some imaginary little world what can you do?

I agree.

They should live in scientifically researched worlds instead.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I was thinking along similar lines regarding your posts.

I agree.

They should live in scientifically researched worlds instead.

Yeah, is that the kind of world that considers a hole cut out of where penis used to be a vagina?

 

[Penumbra]

Yeah, is that the kind of world that considers a hole cut out of where penis used to be a vagina?

It's the kind of world that does decades of research on the qualities of gender identity, like understanding when it develops in a person (early years), whether it can be changed through therapy or not (generally no), whether the body can be changed to match it with statistically satisfactory results (yes), etc.

But no matter, your opinions on fake vaginas and penises are more valid.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I said that the real problem is in the heart and head. Carving up the body doesn't treat that. Do we really all need to be doctors to see that the kind of people we are talking about are severely disturbed?

I guess it's pretty easy to call people 'disturbed' from a comfy spot where you never had to deny yourself, go through years of depression, and be stigmatized by others.

What can I say... I find such words to be sorely disappointing coming from people who supposedly "preach the good news."

 

[LuisDantas]

Yeah, is that the kind of world that considers a hole cut out of where penis used to be a vagina?

Please. Stop embarrassing yourself and go meet an actual transgender already. You have no idea how tragically wrong you are.