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Trump 2024. Why or why not.

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
There is no concept of fellow American with MAGA or the present Republican party. They hate just about every kind of American that isn't a conservative, white Chrisitan, which is most of America. And they have no respect for the Constitution, democracy, egalitarianism, the rule of law, or church-state separation - just like Putin, who actually might support church-state separation.

Obviously, morality doesn't matter to Trump supporters, or else they prefer immorality.

When one generalizes about a collective, it doesn't mean that each individual fits the profile, but rather, that the collective functions in a particular way. For example, it's appropriate to say the Americans like hamburgers even though many are vegetarians. The American right functions as an ammosexual collective even if not every self-identifying conservative agrees with the majority.

But their behavior stains the entire right. Here you find yourself having to defend yourself for being a conservative American who isn't an anti-American, morally bankrupt (right) wingnut.

One could criminalize private gun ownership and it would be consistent with that Amendment. It authorizes communities to have well-regulated militias. Militias generally keep their arms in armories.

None of those things will benefit you. Assuming that you're not in the 1%, you will continue to be taxed at roughly your current rate, which is at a higher rate than the ones who will receive the tax cuts. And your life will become more regulated under Republicans.

What they want deregulated is the businesses that exploit workers and despoil the land. You will lose more rights. Trumps economic "vision" is inflationary.

Trump is economically incompetent. His fortune was inherited and now has been squandered. He's only skilled in grifting. He has declared bankruptcy several times including with two casinos. How corrupt or incompetent at business does one need to be to lose money with a casino? We know they were making money at the tables, yet the businesses tanked under Trump.

From Wiki:

"The six bankruptcies were the result of over-leveraged hotel and casino businesses in Atlantic City and New York: Trump Taj Mahal (1991), Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino (1992), Plaza Hotel (1992), Trump Castle Hotel and Casino (1992), Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts (2004), and Trump Entertainment Resorts (2009)."

"His external entrepreneurial and investment ventures include Trump Financial (a mortgage firm), Trump Sales and Leasing (residential sales), Trump International Realty (a residential and commercial real estate brokerage firm), The Trump Entrepreneur Initiative (a for profit business education company, formerly called the Trump University), Trump Restaurants (located in Trump Tower and consisting of Trump Buffet, Trump Catering, Trump Ice Cream Parlor, and Trump Bar), GoTrump (an online travel search engine[165][166][167]), Select By Trump (a line of coffee drinks),[168] Trump Drinks (an energy drink for the Israeli and Palestinian markets)[169][170][171][172] Donald J. Trump Signature Collection (a line of menswear, men's accessories, and watches), Donald Trump The Fragrance (2004), SUCCESS by Donald Trump (a second fragrance launched by The Trump Organization and the Five Star Fragrance Company released in March 2012), Trump Ice bottled water, the former Trump Magazine,[173] Trump Golf, Trump Chocolate, Trump Home (home furnishings),[174] Trump Productions (a television production company), Trump Institute, Trump: The Game (1989 board game with a 2004 re-release version tied to The Apprentice),[166] Donald Trump's Real Estate Tycoon (a business simulation video game), Trump Books, Trump Model Management, Trump Shuttle, Trump Mortgage, Trump Network (a multi-level vitamin, cosmetic, and urinalysis marketing company),[175][176] Trump Vodka,[174][177][178] Trump Steakhouse[165][179] and Trump Steaks.[166] In addition, Trump reportedly received $1.5 million for each one-hour presentation he did for The Learning Annex.[180] Trump also endorsed ACN Inc., a multi-level marketing telecommunications company. He has spoken at ACN International Training Events at which he praised the company's founders, business model and video phone.[181] He earned a total $1.35 million for three speeches given for the company, amounting to $450,000 per speech.[182]"

Take a look at the links to those businesses to see how many didn't belly up. Now he's hawking tennis shoes and Bibles. He's going broke with huge civil judgments and attorney fees. His assets will be seized and liquidated. And this guy has an MBA from Wharton. How embarrassing for Wharton.

The MyPillow guy runs laps around Trump. He made a fortune selling those pillows, although that's all gone now as well thanks to his becoming a Trump minion. Trump doesn't just bankrupt himself or incriminate himself. Pretty much anybody who got close to Trump is now broke, a defendant, or both. Navarro is in jail now. Bannon is broke and headed to jail after being pardoned by Trump once. Flynn was convicted and pardoned, as was Manafort.

Many of his attorneys have been indicted or copped pleas, some of which have been sanctioned or disbarred (Powell, Ellis, Eastman, Chesebro, Bobb, Wood, Troupis, Cohen, Habba). Rudy has suffered the worst. He'll end up broke and in prison with his assets seized like Trump if he lives. One newer understanding of MAGA is "making attorneys get attorneys."

Do you really need to be told how you are perceived after telling the world that you prefer a twice impeached, four-time indicted convicted felon, career criminal, pathological liar, serial adulterer, sexual predator, wannabe dictator, and insurrectionist who is now becoming visibly more demented each week over a decent man and successful president? What else do I need to know about a person to say that I would never trust him or his judgment?

We had a new player in our bridge club Tuesday wearing a 2020 MAGA hat who was overheard to say that he considers Obama and Biden two of the most corrupt people in the world. What else do I need to know about him or his intelligence or moral judgment? It's a litmus test.

Here's something - a roughly 4-minute YouTube -about those MAGA hats you might find amusing. This character is a consummate misanthrope who has no respect for Trump but who has learned how to use such hats to his advantage:


The liberals are having a field day. Wouldn't you if you were liberal?

And I'll bet a few are experiencing a little schadenfreude now. When Trump was announced victor in 2016, a few memes became popular with conservatives such as "**** your feelings," "Trump dementia syndrome," and "the taste of liberal tears."

The tables have turned now, but you'll find the left to be a bit more subtle. You'll have to guess what they're thinking, but it shouldn't be difficult.
That's a pretty, pretty, pretty good episode! :D
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
Aaaand right there is the problem.

I don't want to share space on this planet with people who live just to make other people miserable.
I was hoping you'd say that. I have a spaceship that will enable you to go to a different planet where you can be with people who won't make you miserable.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
One has to ask, if Trump is supposedly going to be so good for the economy, why not a single Fortune 100 executive has contributed to his campaign, as has been reported several times lately. I have not been able to find anything to the contrary.

And 16 Nobel Prize winning economists wrote: "we believe that a second Trump term would have a negative impact on the US's economic standing in the world and a destabilizing effect on the US's domestic economy."
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
One has to ask, if Trump is supposedly going to be so good for the economy, why not a single Fortune 100 executive has contributed to his campaign, as has been reported several times lately. I have not been able to find anything to the contrary.

And 16 Nobel Prize winning economists wrote: "we believe that a second Trump term would have a negative impact on the US's economic standing in the world and a destabilizing effect on the US's domestic economy."
Seems like to Trumpa and MAGA, making America great again includes Smoot-Hawley-like trade tariffs.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Trump v Biden Economies, Some Comparisons

  • Inflation: Prices have risen 19.3% since Biden took office, almost four times faster than the 5% increase three years and five months into Trump’s term. Yet inflation has been wrestled down to 3.3% today.
  • Hiring: Three years and five months into Biden’s term, the U.S. economy has created 15.6 million jobs. That compares with job losses totaling 12.6 million for Trump.
  • National debt: Biden has so far added $4.3 trillion to the national debt, while Trump approved twice as much during his full term in office ($8.4 trillion).
  • Growth: Since Biden took office, the U.S. economy has grown 8.4% when adjusted for inflation, versus a 6.5% growth rate for the same time period under Trump, though the economy was growing at a similar speed to Biden’s before the pandemic.
  • Stocks: Overall, the S&P 500 stock index has risen 42.1% since Biden took office, compared with a 33.6% increase over the same time period for Trump, but stocks rose at a faster pace under the second and third year in Trump’s term than they did in Biden’s.
  • Consumer sentiment: Confidence in the economy and Americans’ overall personal financial situations has been slumping under Biden, as inflation stays stubborn and consumers’ paychecks lose ground to price increases.
  • Unemployment: Unemployment has fallen 2.4 percentage points under Biden’s term so far, while rising 8.5 percentage points during the same period of Trump’s term. Even ignoring the effects of the pandemic, unemployment has been lower under Biden, thanks to the roaring economic comeback of 2022-2023.
  • Wages: Wages have grown faster under Biden but have lost more ground to inflation than under Trump.
So it seems that inflation is the big issue people have with Biden, and yet there was really only one way to avoid it when trying to recover from the Covid-19 epidemic: let those who lost their jobs or business suffer – don’t offer any assistance. Sure a lot of people would have been badly hurt, but so many Americans, I guess, would prefer that to price increases.

But both Presidents contributed, almost the same amounts! Trump, for example, approved the $1.9 trillion Coronavirus Aid, Relief and Economic Security (CARES) Act, which sent households stimulus checks and scaled up jobless benefits for the unemployed. Once Biden took office, on the other hand, the chief executive ushered in the $2.1 trillion American Rescue Plan, sending a third stimulus check and expanding a tax credit for parents.

Much of the increase in prices stems from the coronavirus pandemic — including who was in the White House during the economy’s plunge (Trump) and red-hot bounce back (Biden). States enacted stay-at-home orders and shuttered nonessential businesses, sacrificing economic activity to curb the spread of the virus.

What did Trump do with respect to infrastructure, compared to Biden's bipartisan infrastructure bill and CHIPS Act? Biden has been working "kitchen-table" economic items, like reducing the cost of prescription drugs, and trying to relieve crushing education debt.

What's coming? Trump is promising lots and lots of lovely tariffs (try to research the horrible damage the Smoots-Hawley Act of 1930 did to the economy), which raise prices, and perhaps lowering taxes. But guess what, that will really hurt the poor, because they're not paying significant taxes (no benefit from lowering them) but everything they buy will cost more. And "drill-baby-drill!" Sounds nice, but kiss your climate goodbye. Look at the damage being caused by climate change around the world -- it's worse than it's ever been, and Trump is totally uninterested in ensuring that your children and your children's children will have air to breathe and a planet to inhabit.
I made a lot of money under Trump.
How?
His economy crashed the stock market.
I bought stocks cheap.

This would be a poor reason to vote for him.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
I made a lot of money under Trump.
How?
His economy crashed the stock market.
I bought stocks cheap.

This would be a poor reason to vote for him.
Coved crashed the stock market.

Pre coved it was up to around 29,500(up around 65% in three years(from around 19,000)

Post coved it dropped to around 18,500

Before he left office it was back up to over 30,000
 
Last edited:

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Coved crashed the stock market.

Pre coved it was up to around 29,500(up around 70% in three years(from around 19,000)

Post coved it dropped to 18,500

Before he left office it was back up to over 30,000
Perhaps you missed my hint of sarcasm.
Many people point to conditions during a President's term.
Without addressing causes & circumstances, they attribute
all results to that President, either to praise or condemn.
That's fallacious.
Covid happened on Trump's watch. His fans excuse the
consequences as not his fault. But it's a different standards
for Biden.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Covid.

Corona Virus Disease.
Tell that to my auto correct lol

IMG_20240627_181114.jpg
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
In February 2020, the unemployment rate was 3.5. In March it shot to a bit over 14 percent. Pandemic, anyone? Remember that?
 

We Never Know

No Slack
In February 2020, the unemployment rate was 3.5. In March it shot to a bit over 14 percent. Pandemic, anyone? Remember that?
Yep. Also many of the so called new jobs were people going back to their jobs after the pandemic. Some for Trump, lots for Biden.
 
Last edited:

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
There is no concept of fellow American with MAGA or the present Republican party. They hate just about every kind of American that isn't a conservative, white Chrisitan, which is most of America. And they have no respect for the Constitution, democracy, egalitarianism, the rule of law, or church-state separation - just like Putin, who actually might support church-state separation.

Obviously, morality doesn't matter to Trump supporters, or else they prefer immorality.

When one generalizes about a collective, it doesn't mean that each individual fits the profile, but rather, that the collective functions in a particular way. For example, it's appropriate to say the Americans like hamburgers even though many are vegetarians. The American right functions as an ammosexual collective even if not every self-identifying conservative agrees with the majority.

But their behavior stains the entire right. Here you find yourself having to defend yourself for being a conservative American who isn't an anti-American, morally bankrupt (right) wingnut.

One could criminalize private gun ownership and it would be consistent with that Amendment. It authorizes communities to have well-regulated militias. Militias generally keep their arms in armories.

None of those things will benefit you. Assuming that you're not in the 1%, you will continue to be taxed at roughly your current rate, which is at a higher rate than the ones who will receive the tax cuts. And your life will become more regulated under Republicans.

What they want deregulated is the businesses that exploit workers and despoil the land. You will lose more rights. Trumps economic "vision" is inflationary.

Trump is economically incompetent. His fortune was inherited and now has been squandered. He's only skilled in grifting. He has declared bankruptcy several times including with two casinos. How corrupt or incompetent at business does one need to be to lose money with a casino? We know they were making money at the tables, yet the businesses tanked under Trump.

From Wiki:

"The six bankruptcies were the result of over-leveraged hotel and casino businesses in Atlantic City and New York: Trump Taj Mahal (1991), Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino (1992), Plaza Hotel (1992), Trump Castle Hotel and Casino (1992), Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts (2004), and Trump Entertainment Resorts (2009)."

"His external entrepreneurial and investment ventures include Trump Financial (a mortgage firm), Trump Sales and Leasing (residential sales), Trump International Realty (a residential and commercial real estate brokerage firm), The Trump Entrepreneur Initiative (a for profit business education company, formerly called the Trump University), Trump Restaurants (located in Trump Tower and consisting of Trump Buffet, Trump Catering, Trump Ice Cream Parlor, and Trump Bar), GoTrump (an online travel search engine[165][166][167]), Select By Trump (a line of coffee drinks),[168] Trump Drinks (an energy drink for the Israeli and Palestinian markets)[169][170][171][172] Donald J. Trump Signature Collection (a line of menswear, men's accessories, and watches), Donald Trump The Fragrance (2004), SUCCESS by Donald Trump (a second fragrance launched by The Trump Organization and the Five Star Fragrance Company released in March 2012), Trump Ice bottled water, the former Trump Magazine,[173] Trump Golf, Trump Chocolate, Trump Home (home furnishings),[174] Trump Productions (a television production company), Trump Institute, Trump: The Game (1989 board game with a 2004 re-release version tied to The Apprentice),[166] Donald Trump's Real Estate Tycoon (a business simulation video game), Trump Books, Trump Model Management, Trump Shuttle, Trump Mortgage, Trump Network (a multi-level vitamin, cosmetic, and urinalysis marketing company),[175][176] Trump Vodka,[174][177][178] Trump Steakhouse[165][179] and Trump Steaks.[166] In addition, Trump reportedly received $1.5 million for each one-hour presentation he did for The Learning Annex.[180] Trump also endorsed ACN Inc., a multi-level marketing telecommunications company. He has spoken at ACN International Training Events at which he praised the company's founders, business model and video phone.[181] He earned a total $1.35 million for three speeches given for the company, amounting to $450,000 per speech.[182]"

Take a look at the links to those businesses to see how many didn't belly up. Now he's hawking tennis shoes and Bibles. He's going broke with huge civil judgments and attorney fees. His assets will be seized and liquidated. And this guy has an MBA from Wharton. How embarrassing for Wharton.

The MyPillow guy runs laps around Trump. He made a fortune selling those pillows, although that's all gone now as well thanks to his becoming a Trump minion. Trump doesn't just bankrupt himself or incriminate himself. Pretty much anybody who got close to Trump is now broke, a defendant, or both. Navarro is in jail now. Bannon is broke and headed to jail after being pardoned by Trump once. Flynn was convicted and pardoned, as was Manafort.

Many of his attorneys have been indicted or copped pleas, some of which have been sanctioned or disbarred (Powell, Ellis, Eastman, Chesebro, Bobb, Wood, Troupis, Cohen, Habba). Rudy has suffered the worst. He'll end up broke and in prison with his assets seized like Trump if he lives. One newer understanding of MAGA is "making attorneys get attorneys."

Do you really need to be told how you are perceived after telling the world that you prefer a twice impeached, four-time indicted convicted felon, career criminal, pathological liar, serial adulterer, sexual predator, wannabe dictator, and insurrectionist who is now becoming visibly more demented each week over a decent man and successful president? What else do I need to know about a person to say that I would never trust him or his judgment?

We had a new player in our bridge club Tuesday wearing a 2020 MAGA hat who was overheard to say that he considers Obama and Biden two of the most corrupt people in the world. What else do I need to know about him or his intelligence or moral judgment? It's a litmus test.

Here's something - a roughly 4-minute YouTube -about those MAGA hats you might find amusing. This character is a consummate misanthrope who has no respect for Trump but who has learned how to use such hats to his advantage:


The liberals are having a field day. Wouldn't you if you were liberal?

And I'll bet a few are experiencing a little schadenfreude now. When Trump was announced victor in 2016, a few memes became popular with conservatives such as "**** your feelings," "Trump dementia syndrome," and "the taste of liberal tears."

The tables have turned now, but you'll find the left to be a bit more subtle. You'll have to guess what they're thinking, but it shouldn't be difficult.
Oh, it's not difficult, not with them screaming. I mean, other than trying to decipher what they're saying above the screaming.
Anyway, I've been told over and over again on this forum, maybe even by you, not sure, that personal anecdotes don't trump science. Well, there you have it. But don't worry, I'm not going to vote for either old, rich guy. I am going to write a name in. Hey, it's a personal anecdote, nothing more, don't worry about it! I'm not - I have to sleep at night.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Oh, it's not difficult, not with them screaming. I mean, other than trying to decipher what they're saying above the screaming.
Anyway, I've been told over and over again on this forum, maybe even by you, not sure, that personal anecdotes don't trump science. Well, there you have it. But don't worry, I'm not going to vote for either old, rich guy. I am going to write a name in. Hey, it's a personal anecdote, nothing more, don't worry about it! I'm not - I have to sleep at night.
Since it is inevitable that either Biden or Trump will be elected President, that is a poor voting strategy. As distasteful as you might find it, you are wiser to actually vote for the one you believe will do the least harm and the most (even if not much) good.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Since it is inevitable that either Biden or Trump will be elected President, that is a poor voting strategy. As distasteful as you might find it, you are wiser to actually vote for the one you believe will do the least harm and the most (even if not much) good.
As far as I know, the electoral college still votes and since they are overwhelmingly in favor of one candidate, I will decline your suggestion, but thanks anyway.
 
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