Trump is losing the debate acting like a raving lunatic

[metis]

Question:
What do you call someone that loves fascism?

Answer:

A fascist lover?

 

[Altfish]

On this at least I agree with you as she has not explained why she changed positions.

Trump has changed parties, he used to be a democrat.

 

[Pogo]

Since when is "transparent" continually lying, breaking the law over and over again, and trying to overthrow an election? And while I'm at it, why do you love fascists so much?



What's "phony" is the above nonsense. Both major parties have some dishonesty in what they say, but Trump & the MAGAs seem hell-bent on having a monopoly on them.

Well Trump is a transparently lying malignant narcissist who has already denied the democratic electoral process unless it supports him.
Even with that degree of transparency there is no shortage of myopics who can't even see it.

 

[Pogo]

She regrets the DNC circling the wagon and using law fare on witnesses. She hoped we could discuss this but once Harris and Biden sneaked the Haitian into the Country and forced them on a community without asking, they have to attack the messenger. We should ask Harris why they chose Springfield and why did Haitians get to skip the border and fly directly to the US? Why not use a DNC sanctuary city?

They are not illegal at that point, they have been vetted for criminal background and eligibility for asylum request status before they enter the country in keeping with the long standing principle of granting asylum to worthy persons from certain countries with significant problems.
It is actually only a program to relieve the pressure on the border by preapproving people who would otherwise have to present themselves there at which point we would begin the same process at greater expense and inconvenience for everybody.

Now you may not believe in the US's tradition of humanitarianism, but that could be considered both unChristian and Un-American.

As for Springfield, they weren't dumped there, they went there because they could fill a labor shortage and revitalize the town which they have done your xenophobia and ignorance not-withstanding.

 

[Copernicus]

Hermanio Joseph: Ohio man faces criminal charges for causing school bus crash that killed a child

Hermanio Joseph did not have a valid driving license at the time of the crash, as per court records

meaww.com

So you searched the internet and found a story about a legal immigrant from Mexico who broke the law by driving without a valid license and caused a serious accident. What does this prove? That the Haitians in Springfield, Ohio, should be harassed by a major presidential candidate over a lie that he spouted on national TV? I don't get your reasoning. If you read a story that some white guy broke the law in a way that caused a serious accident, do you conclude that all white people tend to break laws?

 

[Kathryn]

So you searched the internet and found a story about a legal immigrant from Mexico who broke the law by driving without a valid license and caused a serious accident. What does this prove? That the Haitians in Springfield, Ohio, should be harassed by a major presidential candidate over a lie that he spouted on national TV? I don't get your reasoning. If you read a story that some white guy broke the law in a way that caused a serious accident, do you conclude that all white people tend to break laws?

I didn't "search the internet" for the record. It came up immediately because there was a town hall meeting in August that discussed this. Springfield is a small town.

 

[Pogo]

So you searched the internet and found a story about a legal immigrant from Mexico who broke the law by driving without a valid license and caused a serious accident. What does this prove? That the Haitians in Springfield, Ohio, should be harassed by a major presidential candidate over a lie that he spouted on national TV? I don't get your reasoning. If you read a story that some white guy broke the law in a way that caused a serious accident, do you conclude that all white people tend to break laws?

Some info.

Father of 11-year-old killed in crash by Haitian immigrant fumes at Trump, Vance for using son as ‘political tool’​

Ohio father demands Trump, Vance stop using his son for ‘political gain’

Ohio father asks ‘morally bankrupt’ politicians to stop using his son’s name to promote their political views

www.independent.co.uk

Nathan Clark, an Ohio man who lost his 11-year-old son Aiden in a bus crash last year, stood before the Springfield City Commission meeting on Tuesday, begging Donald Trump, JD Vance and other “morally bankrupt” politicians to stop using his son’s tragic death for “political gain.”

“You know, I wish that my son, Aidan Clark, was killed by a 60-year-old white man,” Clark began while standing next to his wife and mother of their son, Danielle Clark. “If that guy killed my 11-year-old son the incessant group of hate-spewing people would leave us alone.”


Clark told those at the meeting that former president Donald Trump, Senator JD Vance, Representative Chip Roy and Ohio Senate candidate Bernie Moreno had all “spoken” his son’s name and “used his death for political gain.”

Grieving Ohio Father Tells Trump and Vance to Stop Talking About His Son

Nathan Clark says the candidates are exploiting his son’s death in a crash caused by an immigrant outside the small city of Springfield. “This needs to stop now.”

www.nytimes.com

Also, No license is really down to Ohio, a Mexican license which he had is valid for a non-resident, and he would have been eligible for a Ohio license except Ohio, does not accept his federally issued ID to apply. Catch 22 in many if not most states, this is not a problem as the federal ID is considered usable. Had he been stopped for a simple traffic stop, it would have been a misdemeanor offense only.

This is just an ugly example of the worst of American Politics as provided by the leaders of the Republican party vilifying people for no good reason.

Then there is the case of the American woman driving down the wrong side of the road with a US license which is valid in the UK but they drive on the other side. killed a motorcyclist and then claimed diplomatic immunity. Motes and Beams.

Death of Harry Dunn - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We won't even get to the bombing threats.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes, not a national sales tax.

So easy to say, isn't it? You buy something made in, say, Canada and the sticker price is $100. Then you add the 10% tariff, which is $10, which the purchaser pays (Canada doesn't pay it). The result is, you pay $110.

So different from a sales tax, where you buy something for $100, and with a 10% sales tax, you would add $10, which the purchaser pays. The result is, you pay $110.

Oh, wait -- don't those look remarkably similar?

Let's look at it another way. Let's put 30% tariffs on, say, French and Italian wines -- in order to help California vintners thrive. So, you drive the purchase price in the U.S. for a bottle of a a good cabernet sauvignon to $30. Meanwhile, an equivalent from a California vinyard is selling at $16. Well, what sort of behavior do you think you might be encouraging -- isn't it likely the California seller is likely to take advantage of market forces and raise his price, so to something closer to $20? Now, that's still cheaper than the French wine, but it is also inflationary -- in fact, it's a 25% increase!

And that is another truth about what tariffs actually do.

 

[Revoltingest]

So easy to say, isn't it? You buy something made in, say, Canada and the sticker price is $100. Then you add the 10% tariff, which is $10, which the purchaser pays (Canada doesn't pay it). The result is, you pay $110.

Is the tariff on the retail price, rather than wholesale?

So different from a sales tax, where you buy something for $100, and with a 10% sales tax, you would add $10, which the purchaser pays. The result is, you pay $110.

Tariffs don't apply to domestically made goods.
This makes it very different from a national sales tax.

BTW, do you oppose a national sales tax (VAT)
as part of a total taxation strategy?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Is the tariff on the retail price, rather than wholesale?

Sorry, not quite that nuancy -- I was trying to make a point. In any case, if it is on wholesale, would not the wholesaler attempt to recoup some of that from the retailer, who might be expected to raise their price to the consumer?

Tariffs don't apply to domestically made goods.
This makes it very different from a national sales tax.

I understand that -- which explains my discourse on foreign and domestic wines, and how tarrifs can incentive domestic producers to use market forces to raise their own prices, leading to domestic inflation.

BTW, do you oppose a national sales tax (VAT)
as part of a total taxation strategy?

No, I'm a Canadian. Living in Ontario, as I do, I pay a 13% HST (Harmonized Sales Tax) which adds the Federal and Ontario sales taxes together (5% and 8% respectively). Several other provinces use HST, and most others charge 2 separate sales taxes -- federal and provincial. Northwest Territories, Nunavut and Yukon have no sales tax of their own, so you only pay the 5% Federal Sales Tax there.

Canadians generally suppose that if you want governments to do anything for you, you pony up tax money, since governments actually have no money of their own.

 

[Copernicus]

I didn't "search the internet" for the record. It came up immediately because there was a town hall meeting in August that discussed this. Springfield is a small town.

I don't care about some random topic that came up at a town meeting. You just posted a bare link without comment. What does it have to do with this thread?

 

[Revoltingest]

Sorry, not quite that nuancy -- I was trying to make a point. In any case, if it is on wholesale, would not the wholesaler attempt to recoup some of that from the retailer, who might be expected to raise their price to the consumer?

I'd expect that a 10% tariff on wholesale goods
would be less than 10% of the much higher
retail price.
Let's ignore the socialists who'll chime in with....
"They'll use this as an excuse to add 20% !!!"

I understand that -- which explains my discourse on foreign and domestic wines, and how tarrifs can incentive domestic producers to use market forces to raise their own prices, leading to domestic inflation.

No, I'm a Canadian. Living in Ontario, as I do, I pay a 13% HST (Harmonized Sales Tax) which adds the Federal and Ontario sales taxes together (5% and 8% respectively). Several other provinces use HST, and most others charge 2 separate sales taxes -- federal and provincial. Northwest Territories, Nunavut and Yukon have no sales tax of their own, so you only pay the 5% Federal Sales Tax there.

Canadians generally suppose that if you want governments to do anything for you, you pony up tax money, since governments actually have no money of their own.

OK.

 

[Stevicus]

Trump boasts he won the debate because he's 'person of extraordinary genius'

Despite all the polling and commentary to the contrary, Donald Trump snarled at ABC on Saturday morning that he was the true winner of Tuesday's debate and then claimed the network is "under investigation."Along the way, he claimed that the two moderators, David Muir and Linsey Davis, along with...

www.rawstory.com

Along the way, he claimed that the two moderators, David Muir and Linsey Davis, along with Vice President Kamala Harris, are "mentally challenged people" while he is a "genius."

Over two posts on his Truth Social platform, he wrote, "Up 6 points in the Rasmussen Poll. I WON THE DEBATE! A nice lead over the Marxist Candidate, Comrade Kamala Harris, who had a very hard time yesterday answering the simplest of questions in Pennsylvania, where she will end Fracking. It was A WORD SALAD, A REAL MESS!"

He also said that ABC is under investigation. Under investigation by whom?

Moments later he pressed his case further by writing, "ABC FAKE NEWS has been completely discredited, and is now under investigation. Did they give Comrade Kamala the questions? It was 3 on 1, but they were mentally challenged people, against one person of extraordinary genius. It wasn’t even close, as is now reflected in the polls. I WON THE DEBATE!"

We're going to investigate the investigators who are investigating the investigation.

 

[Kathryn]

I don't care about some random topic that came up at a town meeting. You just posted a bare link without comment. What does it have to do with this thread?

So are you the thread police now? I thought it would be interesting to some people here. Feel free to skip past it if it doesn't interest you.

 

[Copernicus]

I don't care about some random topic that came up at a town meeting. You just posted a bare link without comment. What does it have to do with this thread?

So are you the thread police now? I thought it would be interesting to some people here. Feel free to skip past it if it doesn't interest you.

OK, I see what you did there. First, I posted a comment about the "Haitians eat pets" story. You quoted MY post with just your bare, uncommented link to a Mexican immigrant who committed a crime in Ohio--post #717. I asked you to explain it, because it looked like you had just looked up some random story to smear immigrants in Ohio generally. You dodged by saying Springfield was a small town and that this story had been brought up in some unnamed "town hall meeting"--post #726. I clearly asked you to explain its relevance, not just to MY post, which you were responding to, but to the threat topic. You dodged by not answering my question and accusing me of trying to be the thread police, pointing out that it was just something interesting to post. You may detest politicians for the way they dodge questions, but you are getting pretty good at copying their disingenuous style of avoiding direct answers to questions.

I'll rephrase my question, so that you don't accuse me of being the "thread police". Let's talk about what it was doing in YOUR post--#717.

What did your Mexican immigrant story in your reply to me (#717) have to do with MY POST (#708)?

 

[Pogo]

OK, I see what you did there. First, I posted a comment about the "Haitians eat pets" story. You quoted MY post with just your bare, uncommented link to a Mexican immigrant who committed a crime in Ohio--post #717. I asked you to explain it, because it looked like you had just looked up some random story to smear immigrants in Ohio generally. You dodged by saying Springfield was a small town and that this story had been brought up in some unnamed "town hall meeting"--post #726. I clearly asked you to explain its relevance, not just to MY post, which you were responding to, but to the threat topic. You dodged by not answering my question and accusing me of trying to be the thread police, pointing out that it was just something interesting to post. You may detest politicians for the way they dodge questions, but you are getting pretty good at copying their disingenuous style of avoiding direct answers to questions.

I'll rephrase my question, so that you don't accuse me of being the "thread police". Let's talk about what it was doing in YOUR post--#717.

What did your Mexican immigrant story in your reply to me (#717) have to do with MY POST (#708)?

Why did it have to do with anything here, it was just something that it brought to mind that she had seen that interested her and so she decided to share. This is a public board isn't it?

 

[Copernicus]

JD Vance is back repeating the debunked lie about Haitian immigrants eating kidnapped pets and geese from a pond in Springfield, Ohio. He is going on CNN and NBC Meet the Press to repeat these lies, glibly staring into the camera while they are debunked to his face. He doesn't bat an eye, but spends most of the time bashing immigrants generally and then just saying that he is only repeating what his constituents tell him. He knows he is lying. We know he is lying. Does it matter to those who support him and Donald Trump? Nope. They know that nearly half the country will still vote for them. Immigrant-baiting works, and they are not going to stop with the baseless smear campaign. Trump-Vance supporters will amplify and echo their baseless attacks on immigrants.

JD Vance doubles down on false claims about Haitian immigrants in Springfield​

 

[Copernicus]

Why did it have to do with anything here, it was just something that it brought to mind that she had seen that interested her and so she decided to share. This is a public board isn't it?

Are you seriously defending her specific response to my specific post, or was that just a Poe's Law response?

 

[Pogo]

Trump boasts he won the debate because he's 'person of extraordinary genius'

Despite all the polling and commentary to the contrary, Donald Trump snarled at ABC on Saturday morning that he was the true winner of Tuesday's debate and then claimed the network is "under investigation."Along the way, he claimed that the two moderators, David Muir and Linsey Davis, along with...

www.rawstory.com

He also said that ABC is under investigation. Under investigation by whom?



We're going to investigate the investigators who are investigating the investigation.

Again more intentional bluster to demonize and vilify persons and organizations based not on any reality but to incite negative feelings amongst his supporters. This is not dementia, it is the strategy he learned from Roy Cohn and Joseph McCarthy. The baiting that Harris did was just to get him to repeat his memes in an obviously angry way so that those who didn't read them from his echosphere could see the original context of their absurdity.

The problem is that he is easily baited (Harris) and or flattered (Loomer, Putin) into accepting and expressing these absurdities presented to him that he then thinks will be useful in his strategies.

 

[Pogo]

Are you seriously defending her specific response to my specific post, or was that just a Poe's Law response?

Sorry, no smilie, just a general observation of her "what me worry" attitude as I see it.

A common write in on presidential ballots.