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Trump is losing the debate acting like a raving lunatic

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
The point here is that Trump, when he made his statement during the debate demonstrated that he's paying attention to the news and the needs of citizens..
Populist .. get votes through people's fears of being 'overrun by immigrants', without considering
why so many people want or need to emigrate. Just concentrate on making existing citizens all
billionaires.

It's easy to dismiss non-US citizens as being criminals/corrupt .. 'building a wall' will create more
enmity, internally and externally, and does not solve today's inequalities in the world.

The 'Berlin Wall' no longer exists .. should it be rebuilt?

I'm not suggesting that immigration doesn't need to be managed .. of course it does.
..but not by barbed wire and soldiers with guns.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Well, I'll start with this. I grew up a middle-class kid, my mother and father raised my sister and me. They worked very hard. They were able to finally save up enough money to buy our first house when my sister was 2. I grew up in a community of hard-working people, you know, construction workers and nurses and teachers. And I try to explain to some people who may not have had the same experience. You know, a lot of people will relate to this. You know, I grew up in a neighborhood of folks who were very proud of their lawn, and I was raised to believe and to know that all people deserve dignity, and that we as Americans have a beautiful character.
So what happened to make you support the guy who wants to burn all that down?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Bizarre obsession? You mean watching and listening to the news where a citizen of Springfield spoke about the immigration problem in Springfield?
No.
As I've said ad nauseum....
Trump's obsession with the false claim
that Haitians are stealing & eating pets.
They only "fact-checked" Trump and didn't fact check Kamala's false statements. This is an example of bias.
That wouldn't surprise me.
(I didn't watch the debate...only Trump's bizarre antics on youtube.)
Trump's big problem isn't bias against him...it's his insane rants.
Tis as though he's channeling Grandpa Simpson....but with less eloquence.
There are cons to international attention. But the national attention is good for Springfield. Before this attention, Springfield residents were already talking about how they should leave Springfield because of the threat to their well-being.
Yeah...attention like dozens of bomb threats to public buildings.
Springfield's mayor opposes Trump's attention & possible visit.

The rest isn't worth addressing.
Kamala's response to Springfield is "It's a crying shame," as she descends hook, line, and sinker down a racist rabbit hole with no concerns expressed on her part for the problems her and Biden's administration caused.

You should stop using the word disinformation to describe others remarks while simultaneously disseminating debunked theories.

Harris made claims that were known absolutely known to be false, but they didn't fact-check her. It wasn't simply irresponsible; it was bias.

Plenty of residents in Springfield have come forward with similar stories, add them your blame list if you like. No way it helps Kamala win Ohio for her not to address those concerns. The bomb threats, according to the police, are from another country, which also doesn't help Kamala when you stop to think about it for an iota of a second.


You need to reconsider your use of the word disinformation rather than pretending that everything you don't like to hear is disinformation. I'll try not to regard what you say as "garbage".


Not a bad take. Or she is out of touch with what the nation is experiencing as a result of the immigration crisis.


I wouldn't know, but it hardly matters if it is.


I watched the debate. And the most obvious claim she wasn't fact-checked on was the Charlottesville fine nazi hoax. Did you see that?
Crime rates are a close second on the fake-checks from the moderators.


Meanwhile, more reports of cats being eaten, car crashs, residents harrassed, and the overloaded health care system in Springfield.
The benefit of attention is that it places governments under pressure to attend to the needs of their residents. Tangible benefits currently include the $2.5 million dollars in healthcare resources that Springfield is receiving to help deal with their overloaded healthcare system.


Trump and Vance didn't have to invent anything. It was reported in the news. The news continues to report on it.

_______

The point here is that Trump, when he made his statement during the debate demonstrated that he's paying attention to the news and the needs of citizens. That's true even if you think the cats of Springfield are perfectly safe. But Kamala in her scoffing laughter demonstrated that she isn't attentive to the needs of citizens; she prepared to dismiss concerns as outlandish delusion. In the long run, this helps Trump and hurts Kamala. And because Springfield does have an immigration problem, this ages well for Trump and not so well for Kamala. The fact check from ABC also doesn't age well for ABC, because, in the long run, it will stand as an unforgettable example of their bias for Kamala and against Trump in a Presidential debate.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Bizarre obsession? You mean watching and listening to the news where a citizen of Springfield spoke about the immigration problem in Springfield?
Nah, that's called paying attention to events.
Kamala's laughter is called, denial, or maybe she didn't even bother paying attention to events.
You and Trump are victims of disinformation, and even more disinformation.
They only "fact-checked" Trump and didn't fact check Kamala's false statements. This is an example of bias.
Harris is reported as saying one lie. Trump told over 30 lies, and three of them were such whoppers that moderators were obligated to corrct him for the sake of informing the public. Your citing this complaint is being spread ny right wing disinformation. You should use reputable news sources instead.
Kamala's response to Springfield is "It's a crying shame," as she descends hook, line, and sinker down a racist rabbit hole with no concerns expressed on her part for the problems her and Biden's administration caused.
The mayor of Springfield say the right wing disinformation is incorrect. What's happening now is bomb threats and threats against migrants, all due to the disinformation Trump and Vance are spreding, with the help of his irrational followers, like yourself.
You should stop using the word disinformation to describe others remarks while simultaneously disseminating debunked theories.
Why stop using the word when it is applicable to what is happening? Is it because you don't like being exposed for your lack of credibility, and poor judgment in trusting right wing disinformation?
Harris made claims that were known absolutely known to be false, but they didn't fact-check her. It wasn't simply irresponsible; it was bias.
Reporting is that she told one lie, while Trump told over 30, with three glaring whopvers that were known to be completely untrue. Why don't you ponder why Trump keeps making false statemenst about abotion, about the Haitianns eating pets, and the eelction being stolen? These aren't true, and Trump continuing to make these claims only shows he is unfit to be president that much more. The man is declining and disturbed.
Plenty of residents in Springfield have come forward with similar stories, add them your blame list if you like. No way it helps Kamala win Ohio for her not to address those concerns. The bomb threats, according to the police, are from another country, which also doesn't help Kamala when you stop to think about it for an iota of a second.
There are no credible reports of pets being eaten. There might be come bogus stories on right wing disinformation that you trust for some irrational reason. Trump is trying to scare his followers and apparently it's working as we see in your posts, and the posts of a few others. All this tells us is how successful Trump is at being a conman, and fooling his base. No rational mind takes Trump seriously, but he is a serious threat to Springfield, to Haitians, to migrant as a whole, and to America. He's not fit to be president.
You need to reconsider your use of the word disinformation rather than pretending that everything you don't like to hear is disinformation. I'll try not to regard what you say as "garbage".
I use the word when members site disinformation, as you do. There are a number of members whose poses are nothing but disinformation from poor quality right wing media. The only reason I know what right wing disinformation is telling people is from these members repeating the lies. You are one of these memebrer, and you can't demand being treated as if you aren't guilty of being duped. It is your choice to be fooled, and you will be called out. There is plenty of reputable media to use, but you clearly prefer the disinformation from the right.
Not a bad take. Or she is out of touch with what the nation is experiencing as a result of the immigration crisis.
That's odd, you should see her town hall with Oprah. The mother and two sisters of Amber Nicole Thurman were guests and both Oprah and Harris talked to them about their story and agony of losing her. This shows the decency and compassion of the only stable candidate for president. She knows full well what is happening at the border, and supproeted the bill that would have reformed the law that the government has to follow. Remember, Trump sabotaged repiblican support for theis bill, and that shows he doesn't care about solutions, but in becoming president again so he can stay out of jail.

No one has explained to me what is so attractive about the criminal candidate. What hold does he have over your ability to reason? Have you pondered why you want a criminal in the White House? If you have you haven't shared it here.
I watched the debate. And the most obvious claim she wasn't fact-checked on was the Charlottesville fine nazi hoax. Did you see that?
There were Nazis at that event. A woman was killed. What is your dispute? These racists used to keep quiet and private until Trump came along and gave them, among other racist groups and fake patriots, a feeling like they are supported by the criminal candidate.
Meanwhile, more reports of cats being eaten, car crashs, residents harrassed, and the overloaded health care system in Springfield.
The benefit of attention is that it places governments under pressure to attend to the needs of their residents. Tangible benefits currently include the $2.5 million dollars in healthcare resources that Springfield is receiving to help deal with their overloaded healthcare system.
Feel free to cite reputable sources. We can't take your word for it given your bias.
Trump and Vance didn't have to invent anything. It was reported in the news. The news continues to report on it.
They repeated fake news, and refuse to admit they made a mistake. They could have just dropped the issue without admitting their error, but they keep repeating the lie.
The point here is that Trump, when he made his statement during the debate demonstrated that he's paying attention to the news and the needs of citizens. That's true even if you think the cats of Springfield are perfectly safe. But Kamala in her scoffing laughter demonstrated that she isn't attentive to the needs of citizens; she prepared to dismiss concerns as outlandish delusion. In the long run, this helps Trump and hurts Kamala. And because Springfield does have an immigration problem, this ages well for Trump and not so well for Kamala. The fact check from ABC also doesn't age well for ABC, because, in the long run, it will stand as an unforgettable example of their bias for Kamala and against Trump in a Presidential debate.
Trump is using disinformation, and has no credibility. Your blind devotion to the lyling criminal candidate tell us more about you than what's happening in Springfield.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
So what happened to make you support the guy who wants to burn all that down?
I want Trump supporters to explain is detail what they believe Trump will fix, and how it will make life in America better for citizens like them.

I mentioned a man who was at the Jan 6 attack who was on 60 Minutes who said that he was motivated to g travel 2000 miles because he believed Trump won the 2020 election. He wanted Trump because his wife is disabled and they had to spend tens of thousands of dollars on her care. He couldn't say what Trump would do to help his family. He man really seemed stumped when asked how Trump would make his life better.

I think Trump has been successful in making frustrated citizens feel like he understands them, but he has no actual solutions that will resolve the problems that make them frustrated. The man won't find solutions to his wife's healthcre costs in Trump, or any republican. It could be part of his frustration is hearing the demonization of democrats and dismissing them as an option to vote, but the only party that actually wants to help resolve the costs of healthcare. The guy is trapped by his devotion and emotional judgments.

I think some folks get used to being miserable and don't really feel the self-respect to create a more fulflled life. They prefer to mire in their status and can blame others, or the government, or whatever for their suffering. Has any middle class Trump supporter really benefitted from him being president for 4 years? Nothing I can really see. Nothing they have claimed.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I want Trump supporters to explain is detail what they believe Trump will fix, and how it will make life in America better for citizens like them.
My impression: the racism is the attraction, but Trump supporters know better than to come out and say this.

I think that these are people who view life and society as a zero-sum game, where one person doing better must mean someone else doing worse.

They look back to a time when even lower-class white people could see that there were people a rung or two below them on the ladder. Now, the people who they used to look down on have improved in their situation and social standing; these lower class white people interpret this as an erosion of their own social standing.

They probably don't view this as racism, since they probably don't really care about who would be beneath them; they just want there to be a few rungs of the ladder between where they are and rock bottom. However, given the realities of the US, re-establishing an underclass below Trump supporters would almost certainly be done based on race if it were to happen... and even Trump supporters can recognize this.

That's my take on it, anyway.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
My impression: the racism is the attraction, but Trump supporters know better than to come out and say this.

I think that these are people who view life and society as a zero-sum game, where one person doing better must mean someone else doing worse.

They look back to a time when even lower-class white people could see that there were people a rung or two below them on the ladder. Now, the people who they used to look down on have improved in their situation and social standing; these lower class white people interpret this as an erosion of their own social standing.

They probably don't view this as racism, since they probably don't really care about who would be beneath them; they just want there to be a few rungs of the ladder between where they are and rock bottom. However, given the realities of the US, re-establishing an underclass below Trump supporters would almost certainly be done based on race if it were to happen... and even Trump supporters can recognize this.

That's my take on it, anyway.
Good point. And the odd thing is that if Trump deports the millions of migrants then the poor/middle class working class will still be at the bottom, and probably worse off. What will they do when food prices go up due to a lack of labor? What will Trump do about medical costs? Or drug costs? Or rising insurance costs which will become a crisis in the near future.

No one is talking about the insurance crisis, especially the home insurance market that is close to collapse. The home insurance market is hemorrhiging money due to losses, and could collapse like the housing market did in 2009. Who is better preparred for an emergency like the pandemic? Trump? No way. He didn't want to manage the pandemic and left it to states, and he will likley treat any national/global crisis in the same way. Harris is a vastly more serious and competent leader.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Bizarre obsession? You mean watching and listening to the news where a citizen of Springfield spoke about the immigration problem in Springfield?
Nah, that's called paying attention to events.
Wow, you really bought into this fake news story that someone pulled from their backside.
Kamala's laughter is called, denial, or maybe she didn't even bother paying attention to events.
It's called: Laughing at a delusional comment made by a delusional individual.
That's the only response Trump's "they're eating the cats and the dogs" comment deserves. It's completely made up nonsense meant to demonize and marginalize migrants.

It clearly worked on his base. Look at you eating up the lies.
They only "fact-checked" Trump and didn't fact check Kamala's false statements. This is an example of bias.
Kamala didn't make any delusional claims. Trump made several.

-They're eating the cats and the dogs
-Democrats want to kill babies after they're born
-Democrats are giving transgender surgeries to school children and illegal immigrant prisoners
-Trump won the 2020 election

Those things are nutso delusions.
Show me anything Kamala said that came anywhere close to that level of delusional.
There are cons to international attention. But the national attention is good for Springfield. Before this attention, Springfield residents were already talking about how they should leave Springfield because of the threat to their well-being.
This poster just told you that as a results of this lie being spread by Vance, Trump and MAGA (including yourself), that Vance has already admitted he has made up, that this town has been getting bomb threats and your response is ... "but the national attention is good for Springfield."

Really? You think the "national attention" that Springfield is getting that includes bomb threats to their city, is a good thing?
Kamala's response to Springfield is "It's a crying shame," as she descends hook, line, and sinker down a racist rabbit hole with no concerns expressed on her part for the problems her and Biden's administration caused.
The claim isn't true.
It's made up.
Every leader, police chief, mayor, etc. in Springfield have said it's made up. It's not happening.
People aren't stealing and eating dogs and cats in Springfield, Ohio.
There are some issues regarding resources and housing in Springfield, but it's got absolutely nothing to do with anyone eating cats and dogs.

How do you think the Biden administration caused this?
You should stop using the word disinformation to describe others remarks while simultaneously disseminating debunked theories.
You are spreading disinformation about Haitian migrants.
Harris made claims that were known absolutely known to be false, but they didn't fact-check her. It wasn't simply irresponsible; it was bias.
Like what?
Did she said any delusional things like Trump did?
Plenty of residents in Springfield have come forward with similar stories, add them your blame list if you like. No way it helps Kamala win Ohio for her not to address those concerns. The bomb threats, according to the police, are from another country, which also doesn't help Kamala when you stop to think about it for an iota of a second.
No, they haven't. There has been ZERO confirmation from anyone in Springfield that Haitian migrants are stealing and eating their cats and dogs.

Let's think about this for a second. Do you think the town of Springfield would be receiving all these bomb threats if Vance and Trump didn't make this stupid claim about people eating "the cats and the dogs?" Think hard.
You need to reconsider your use of the word disinformation rather than pretending that everything you don't like to hear is disinformation. I'll try not to regard what you say as "garbage".
You need to stop spreading lies.
How about that?
Not a bad take. Or she is out of touch with what the nation is experiencing as a result of the immigration crisis.
The guy making delusional claims is the one who's out of touch with reality.
That's Trump in this case.
I wouldn't know, but it hardly matters if it is.
It is. Like, word for word.
I watched the debate. And the most obvious claim she wasn't fact-checked on was the Charlottesville fine nazi hoax. Did you see that?
He did say there were good people on both sides and he also told the Proud Boys to "stand back and stand by."
He did also condemn the violence though. That's the part Kamala left out.
I don't see that as being anywhere near the level of the claims of Trump's that were fact checked that had zero basis in reality.

Crime rates are a close second on the fake-checks from the moderators.
You'll have to be more specific.
Meanwhile, more reports of cats being eaten, car crashs, residents harrassed, and the overloaded health care system in Springfield.
There are zero verified reports of cats being eaten. ZERO.

Residents are being harassed because of lies like this that you are helping to spread. You are contributing to the problem, not helping it.
The benefit of attention is that it places governments under pressure to attend to the needs of their residents. Tangible benefits currently include the $2.5 million dollars in healthcare resources that Springfield is receiving to help deal with their overloaded healthcare system.


Trump and Vance didn't have to invent anything. It was reported in the news. The news continues to report on it.
It was never reported in the news. Vance admitted to creating the story.


_______

The point here is that Trump, when he made his statement during the debate demonstrated that he's paying attention to the news and the needs of citizens.
What he showed was what we already know - he believes every single thing he reads on the internet. That he's unable to discern fact from fiction. That he is detached from reality.

That's true even if you think the cats of Springfield are perfectly safe. But Kamala in her scoffing laughter demonstrated that she isn't attentive to the needs of citizens; she prepared to dismiss concerns as outlandish delusion. In the long run, this helps Trump and hurts Kamala. And because Springfield does have an immigration problem, this ages well for Trump and not so well for Kamala. The fact check from ABC also doesn't age well for ABC, because, in the long run, it will stand as an unforgettable example of their bias for Kamala and against Trump in a Presidential debate.
There are some problems in Springfield, to be sure, but it's not with illegal immigrants. And it's not with illegal immigrants stealing and eating peoples' pets. It's more to do with resources.

Is Trump so stupid that he wasn't able to articulate the actual problems facing the people of Springfield and instead had to spew out some ludicrous story that J.D. Vance was spreading around that he couldn't even be bothered to fact check before telling it to the entire world and making himself look like a fool? You want that guy running the country? The guy that can't discern fact from fiction? Yikes.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
So, schools have the money to host a surgical department for the purposes of transgender surgeries, but teachers have to by supplies for their students?

Riiiight......:rolleyes:
It is astounding the things that Magas can believe.
Have they never been in a public school?
There are no surgical wards. No surgeons.
No anesthesiologists. No surgeries of any kind!

At best, all they'll have is a school nurse
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
They only "fact-checked" Trump and didn't fact check Kamala's false statements. This is an example of bias.
I have to correct this. Trump was only fact-checked three times when he made claims that were beyond "pant on fire" false. He was not fact checked every time that he made a false statement. He made over thirty false statements. Harris may have made three. If they fact checked both contestants for all false claims It would be over 90% correcting Trump. He got off easy:

 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I have to correct this. Trump was only fact-checked three times when he made claims that were beyond "pant on fire" false. He was not fact checked every time that he made a false statement. He made over thirty false statements. Harris may have made three. If they fact checked both contestants for all false claims It would be over 90% correcting Trump. He got off easy:

But...but...but....if Trump is fact checked 3 times,
then Harris must be fact checked 3 times!
Fake news! Rigged debate! Dogs eaten!
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Depend on who you listen to.
I listen to reputable sources. You have a history of poor quality sources and disinformation.

But at 25 lies from your questionable source it's still far fewer than what Trump said. So I will go with Harris. She's stable and actually has ideas and plans for how to manage the government. Trump continues to lie and rant like a weak crybaby. What an embarrassment for the right.
 

Copernicus

Industrial Strength Linguist
Plenty of residents in Springfield have come forward with similar stories


Ebionite, do you even bother to read the stories that you post links to? The headline on that story is totally misleading clickbait. When you actually read the story and watch the video, it is a Springfield resident who brings up the stories in a town meeting. The city manager angrily pushed back and said that he had heard stories, too, but there was never any proof to back them up. The resident said that his sources were "confidential", so he couldn't disclose them. The City Manager responded that none of the reports were credible. The headline made it look like he was backing up the claims he was actually criticizing for lack of evidence.

Hysterical rumors are not facts. They are just rumors. And people will make up all sorts of things when they are frightened and upset. They spread rumors, just as you have been doing in this thread.
 
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Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Ebionite, do you even bother to read the stories that you post links to? The headline on that story is totally misleading clickbait.
Wrong, the headline says that the City Manager had heard the reports, and there is audio of him admitting to this twice in the exchange with Sanders.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Tell someone who cares what you think.
So you don't care. And you are hostile towards reputable media sources. No wonder your posts are easily disputed.

Wrong, the headline says that the City Manager had heard the reports, and there is audio of him admitting to this twice in the exchange with Sanders.
We've all heard the gossip and lies by now. There is no evidence of Haitians eating pets.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
So you don't care. And you are hostile towards reputable media sources. No wonder your posts are easily disputed.
I don't care about the irrelevant losers who have no facts to support their inane claims.

Speaking of "reputable media"...

1a184522e5a117d2.png


There is no evidence of Haitians eating pets.
Keep repeating the MSM talking points.

0:00 "there was Haitians is a white van driving around the neighbourhoods collecting cats"

0:23 "a van pulled over that had over 100 cats in it with the the Haitians"


Yes, they eat cats. However, eating cat meat is not a daily or nationwide practice.
 
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