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Trump is safe following shooting at Florida golf course; suspect detained

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
It shows intent and a willingness to act, and that matters when your base agrees with the idea of American nationalism.

Crossing the border is certainly no walk in the park. Most of it has very inhospitable terrain. People who are willing to endure that to get across will certainly find ways around, over, or under any wall or fence that may be built (as they do already).

If someone really wants to show intent and a willingness to act, then they should do so on this side of the border - by imposing heavy punishments upon the businesses who hire and profit from undocumented workers. Put some real teeth in the law and give out long prison sentences. That would work wonders towards solving the problem, far more than any border wall could do.

Yes, when Trump was talking about the swamp it wasn't just a Republican vs Democrat issue.

I know. I've also heard it called "The Beast," as opposed to calling it "The Swamp."

It seems quite clear that there are business elements who have profited quite nicely from the status quo which they have created, both in terms of influence over US policies towards Latin America these past 200 years, as well as creating a situation where millions of them are desperate enough to risk life and limb to cross treacherous terrain and illegally cross the border, just so they can be exploited by business owners in the US who are only too happy to pay them under the table for far less than they would have if they had to hire legal workers.

The policies might be tweaked a bit or maybe repackaged under a different name to assuage public opinion, but they'll never really change because too many vested interests have a stake in maintaining the status quo.


It's a good idea. The problem is that the state's idea of good isn't the same as the greater good. The remedy is to know why the state acts against the interests of the people.

The "state" is just an inanimate tool, under the control of whoever holds stewardship over it. Theoretically, the people are supposed to hold stewardship over it by electing representatives who are supposed to keep it under positive control.

If people aren't smart enough to vote wisely, then we get what we get.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
If someone really wants to show intent and a willingness to act, then they should do so on this side of the border - by imposing heavy punishments upon the businesses who hire and profit from undocumented workers.
The undocumented workers are not the problem, the problem is the criminal element of the immigrants and those who don't fit in to the local culture.

I've also heard it called "The Beast," as opposed to calling it "The Swamp."
The Beast is more relevant from a religious point of view, specifically the eagle. The wings being plucked off represents U.S. independence.

The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
Daniel 7:4

It seems quite clear that there are business elements who have profited quite nicely from the status quo which they have created
How do you think that those who hire undocumented workers have created the current problem with immigrants?

The policies might be tweaked a bit or maybe repackaged under a different name to assuage public opinion, but they'll never really change because too many vested interests have a stake in maintaining the status quo.
The only relevant status quo I know of is the strategy of increasing the percentage of the population who will vote for the party that gives them free stuff.

The "state" is just an inanimate tool, under the control of whoever holds stewardship over it. Theoretically, the people are supposed to hold stewardship over it by electing representatives who are supposed to keep it under positive control.
The core service of the state is protection/security. Security issues are naturally opaque, so the democratic model does work well for that.

If people aren't smart enough to vote wisely, then we get what we get.
The only wise vote is a vote not cast IMO.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Trump hadn't planned to play golf yesterday. It was a last minute decision.
However the gunman was hiding in the bushes for 12 hours.
He must have been very determined about shooting Trump that he hid there 12 hours not even knowing if Trump would even be there.

"A gunman hid for nearly 12 hours in bushes before Donald Trump played an unscheduled game of golf at his oceanfront club in Florida – leaving locals stunned at what authorities say appears to be the second attempt to assassinate the former president in as many months."

 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The undocumented workers are not the problem, the problem is the criminal element of the immigrants and those who don't fit in to the local culture.

It takes time. I have somewhat mixed views on the concept of assimilation. The country has had a checkered history when it comes to forcing people to assimilate to the basically "wasp" culture which has predominated in the country. There was a backlash and reaction against that which coincided with the Civil Rights movement. On the other hand, most do tend to assimilate over time, mainly because it is advantageous to do so. Eventually, they fit in to the culture, especially by the second or third generation.

The criminal element, regardless of what their race, ethnicity, or culture might be, needs to be dealt with by law enforcement and the civilian politicians who supervise law enforcement. That's where it can get dicey, especially if the politicians are corrupt and have a vested interest in protecting criminal elements. Sometimes law enforcement officers have also been known to accept bribes to look the other way. But again, that would not be the immigrants' fault. Also, I know in many cases of crime attributed to immigrants, the victims are often other immigrants. So, I think it's in the interest of all to work to root out the criminal elements - in all communities.

I believe RFK (the original) said "Crime is a question of criminals. It is not a matter of race, color, or creed."

The Beast is more relevant from a religious point of view, specifically the eagle. The wings being plucked off represents U.S. independence.

The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
Daniel 7:4

Yes, it was in a religious context I've heard it discussed, but it basically refers to the apparatus and leadership of the US government but presenting them in an unflattering way. I sense a good deal of bureaucratic inertia and internal rot within the system which seems to lead to periodic breakdowns, miscalculations, and misjudgments which can be rather costly. This is even without factoring the degree of corruption which likely exists within the system.

It's funny, because some might refer to the same phenomenon as "The Man," which is just another euphemism. "The Beast" is "The Man."

How do you think that those who hire undocumented workers have created the current problem with immigrants?

They're the ones who have benefited from the process and provide the incentive for politicians to continue and encourage more of the same. All of these businesses are complaining that they can't get workers, because "no one wants to work" (at least that's what they say). They're the ones who are clamoring for cheaper labor costs, all while they're raising prices through the roof. Apparently, that's how all those Haitians ended up in Springfield, Ohio, as a local employer was ostensibly desperate for cheap labor.

And in tough economic times, people tend to look for something or someone to blame for all their troubles. It's not about eating cats. If this is all about protecting cats, I can point to another thread where I posted a link to a news story where some cops were caught shooting and killing a cat they were using as target practice.


I was certainly outraged when I read this, and I think anyone else reading it would have been outraged. But somehow, it didn't get the same level of national attention.

The only relevant status quo I know of is the strategy of increasing the percentage of the population who will vote for the party that gives them free stuff.

Nothing is ever really free, and I don't think it would really be that way in the long run. The irony is that many immigrants come from countries and regions of the world which could be described as "socially conservative" with views that might coincide with the religious right. They might have even voted for them on that basis, if not for the fact that so many on the right wing view them with such scorn and contempt because of where they come from. The nationalistic and racist elements among them actually drives away many people who might otherwise support them.

They wouldn't automatically go with the Democrats, but considering that the Republicans aren't exactly welcoming them with open arms, they'll go with the party which seems friendlier (or maybe just the "lesser of two evils" just like everyone else does).

The core service of the state is protection/security. Security issues are naturally opaque, so the democratic model does work well for that.

It's one of the duties of the state. The ways and means by which security is conducted may often be kept classified from the people, although the priorities and security perceptions can be somewhat subjective and should be reviewed through open and democratic processes. Many questionable practices of government have been explained away and/or justified because it's for the protection of our national security. It's why the U.S. has a military presence in 80 or so separate countries around the world, why we have a formidable air, naval, and space force - along with a deadly arsenal of nuclear weapons ready to strike at a moment's notice. It's why we have an extensive and widespread intelligence and law enforcement community at all levels of government. It's why the NSA listens in on people's phone calls, while the CIA and FBI do all kinds of dirty tricks.

It's all about "national interests." Economics. In other words, nationalism. If that's the priority of the state at present, then the people might be inclined to support it, if they are genuinely convinced that it's in their own interests. And, if they're convinced that it's for the greater good of world freedom and democracy, then they can support US militarism with a clear conscience and still consider themselves good, moral, and noble human beings.

But even that can't filter out normal human response. If the state does something atrocious, then it does leave a bitter taste in a lot of people's mouths, even if it was done for them and in their interests. But very often, it's not actually done "for" the people or the people's interests, and people can often get a sense of that at street level.

The only wise vote is a vote not cast IMO.

Hard to say. I remember Andy Rooney once saying that "an idiot's vote counts just as much as your vote." In that way, I get the sense that smart people are vastly outnumbered at the polls.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Being there was no presidential election in 2010 its says a great deal about GPT.
Yet presidential campaigns routinely begin two years before the election. Trump was one of the republicans who ran for the 2012 nomination. He didn't win, Romney won that year. Trump came back in the next cycle and did win the 2016 nomination.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
It takes time. I have somewhat mixed views on the concept of assimilation. The country has had a checkered history when it comes to forcing people to assimilate to the basically "wasp" culture which has predominated in the country. There was a backlash and reaction against that which coincided with the Civil Rights movement. On the other hand, most do tend to assimilate over time, mainly because it is advantageous to do so. Eventually, they fit in to the culture, especially by the second or third generation.
Typically the less talented of the mix fares relatively badly, which can lead to unjustified blame (eg the inherited sin of the slave owners).

It's one of the duties of the state. The ways and means by which security is conducted may often be kept classified from the people, although the priorities and security perceptions can be somewhat subjective and should be reviewed through open and democratic processes.
An open security review discloses vulnerabilities to potential adversaries.

It's all about "national interests." Economics.
There are liabilities that arise from providing assistance to a criminal enterprise (eg an accessory after the fact). The consequences of these liabilities can be more severe than financial loss.

and still consider themselves good, moral, and noble human beings.
Self righteousness doesn't provide any protection against the consequences of culpability.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Not my problem that you can't comprehend that there is a difference between facts and evidence.
Not my problem that you can't comprehend the difference between "this statement is true" and "the fact that someone made this statement is true".

God, you are SO desperate to avoid ever having to meet any kind of burden of proof, it's laughable. Why make arguments at all if you're completely unable to support them?
 

anotherneil

Well-Known Member
There's a rumor floating around that this would-be shooter was also featured in an ad; I was able to find this page that what appears to be part of the ad posted on it:


From what I'm seeing, it seems like it wouldn't be difficult for a prankster to fabricate something that may have been a real ad by editing in momentary video. I'd like to see this entire ad and a source that can corroborate it. The reason is because I'm finding articles saying that he was not in a Blackrock ad & there are some podcasters out there making a fuss about all these shooters appearing in government "propaganda videos".
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
There's a rumor floating around that this would-be shooter was also featured in an ad; I was able to find this page that what appears to be part of the ad posted on it:


From what I'm seeing, it seems like it wouldn't be difficult for a prankster to fabricate something that may have been a real ad by editing in momentary video. I'd like to see this entire ad and a source that can corroborate it. The reason is because I'm finding articles saying that he was not in a Blackrock ad & there are some podcasters out there making a fuss about all these shooters appearing in government "propaganda videos".
Thomas Crooks, the one who grazed Trump's ear, was in a Blackrock ad, not Ryan Routh.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Flashbacks to 9/11 (visas for terrorists with Mike Brennan)

"Ryan Routh sounds like exactly the operation that the CIA described a month ago" ~ Mike Benz

 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
Trump hadn't planned to play golf yesterday. It was a last minute decision.
However the gunman was hiding in the bushes for 12 hours.
He must have been very determined about shooting Trump that he hid there 12 hours not even knowing if Trump would even be there..
Curiouser and curiouser, cried Alice. :expressionless:
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
Givin the reactionary nature of the left and the sheer volume of postings one after another, I highly doubt that.


re·ac·tion·ar·y
[rēˈakSHəˌnerē]
adjective
reactionary (adjective)
  1. (of a person or a set of views) opposing political or social liberalization or reform:
    "reactionary attitudes toward women's rights"
    Similar:
    conservative
    right-wing
    rightist
    ultra-conservative
    ultra-right
    alt-right
    blimpish
    diehard
    traditionalist
    conventional
    traditional
    old-fashioned
    unprogressive
    true-blue
    Opposite:
    radical
    progressive
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
My thoughts are that the argument that the hearsay about Haitian people eating cats in Springfield, Ohio was debunked because it wasn't evidence reflects the weaponization of the U.S. Department of Justice against Trump. The rules of evidence belong to the judiciary, but facts (including those relating to hearsay) belong to the people.

As far as I know, at no point was the honesty of those involved in the hearsay account called into question.
Alternate facts
 
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