Trump makes conflicting comments, both of them ominous and disturbing

[Kenny]

source?

When does a fetus have a heartbeat? Timing and more

The heart of a fetus starts beating in the fifth week of pregnancy, and it may be detectable on a transvaginal scan. Learn about the timing, methods, and more.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

 

[Spice]

Maybe your nomenclature is wrong? After all, a baby that is in the womb is still a baby. A 6 month old that is taken out of the womb isn’t experiencing a sudden “transformation” from a fetus to a baby. It was a baby in the womb and it was a baby outside the womb even if you want to call it within your definition of “fetus".

It’s logical as well as scientific.

So what is the issue you have?

You really need to recognize the three trimesters of human gestation.
1st trimester - embryo
2nd trimester - fetus
3rd trimester - still a fetus, but finally "unborn baby" makes sense. At this stage, with modern medical science, they have a chance at survival if there are no abnormalities in development and the mother is healthy.

3rd trimester is when medical intervention will do all possible to save the baby under conditions of pre-mature birth. There are no guarantees. But this should have some baring on the morality of care for non-viable life, IMO, for those who cherish quality of life, and not at-any-cost life.

 

[Kenny]

3rd trimester is when medical intervention will do all possible to save the baby under conditions of pre-mature birth. There are no guarantees. But this should have some baring on the morality of care for non-viable life, IMO, for those who cherish quality of life,

Yes… that is what is being litigate on a state by state level

 

[Nakosis]

I watched the video by Rachel Maddow/MSNBC contained in this link, and found it thought provoking. Trump says, "get out to vote just this time. You won't have to do it anymore ... In four years, you don't have to vote again. We'll have it so fixed that you won't have to vote." The implications of that comment are obvious and disturbing. He intends to end voting in America, although I can't visualize how that could happen. Sham elections, yes, but no voting?

Next, she changes tracks. Beginning at 1:43, she discusses what he said the days before that comment, namely, that his supporters don't need to vote for him this time - the contradiction. At 2:22, she shows several clips of Trump saying that he doesn't need votes - his earlier message. Why would he say that even once?

For the rest of the video, she discusses this apparent contradiction and what it might mean. She suggests that Trump expects to take the White House however the votes fall, which suggests that the comment quoted above was some kind of pivot or damage control following saying that he doesn't need votes. And she suggests that this will be due to Republican controlled state legislatures refusing to certify outcomes that they don't like in their states.

Is there another way of understanding Trump's comments?

And even if she is correct about what Trump is thinking, does he have good reason to think such things? Has he been told something by his handlers? If so, could those words be just words to assuage him, or does he have inside information? Would they even tell Trump such a thing were the case? Are these just the confused thoughts of a man in cognitive decline losing touch with reality, or is there more to it?

I don't think we can answer that now.

And can anything be done if there are states getting ready to gridlock the election process? If they did, how would that put Trump in the White House? Things might get pretty interesting if a few states refuse to certify their results. They would be states with a Republican state government that Harris carried, which would lower her electoral vote count. Trump might have more as a result, but it wouldn't be the 270 electoral votes needed to win.

Anyway, it gave me a lot to think about, and I thought that some here at RF would be intrigued by this video and issue as well.

Thoughts?

It doesn't help Trump that he talks like a dictator.
I assume he means he will come up with permanent solutions to a majority of the US problems. Like inflation, unemployment, border control, foreign wars. No doubt end the conflict in the Middle East and Ukraine. Resolve any unfairness in the legal system, healthcare, education. Not only resolve them but do so in a way which can't be fixed.

Ok, so maybe dictator like, unless you happen to like what his is dictating. In which case he is just another politician telling people what he thinks they want to hear. i.e. what enough want to hear to get them to vote for him.

 

[Spice]

Yes… that is what is being litigate on a state by state level

I disagree. What is bring litigated in a state by state level are the parameters of the first two trimesters.

I've never heard any legitimate debate on the medical care required/allowed in the third trimesters. Yes, there has been many sensationalized rumors of "full-term abortions" that is total nonsense.

Most people, even pro-choicers, think the middle of the second is the no turning back point. But we have far, far too many thinking they can decide what others must do before that fetus has reached a healthy 3rd trimester and reasonable viability.

You speak of heart beat -- but at what point does God give his breathe?

 

[We Never Know]

Especially with the dumb and dumber team of stolen valor and stolen property. Walz exaggerates his military rank and Harris steals Trump's idea of not taxing tips for service workers.

I saw a clip how one of the fake news station tried to show Trump's idea of no taxes on tips as a big loss of Government revenue. Then after Harris steals it, the same fake news now builds it up as Harris is for the working class. The Con artist clown circus is in town.

This entire topic is about a flip flopping because that is the Harris and Waltz strategy; radial left repackage to be moderate, even stealing the idea of the other party. In terms of no tax on tips, Biden-Harris hired more IRS agents to shakedown the service industry for tip revenue. This just went into effect. Harris had the deciding vote in the Senate. Now she pretending for the tax break, but has not called off the dogs. What is with that?

Stolen Valor and Stolen Property

I heard that what made Joe Biden change his mind, and step down not run for President, was caused by the Injustice System, at the request of Nancy Pelosi. The Injustice system who hd been protecting Hunter Biden, allowing the statute of limitation to expire, all of a sudden found that a Rumanian Oligarch had given Hunter $ 3 million to influence US policy. This was the closest that even got to connecting Joe Biden to the family business.

A day or to later, Joe Biden quit, because of the crooked DNC coup was set against him, using law fare. Biden was dealing with the criminal element in his own party for a few days. Trump has had to deal that since 2016, and is strong enough to still be in the mix.

Romanian oligarch hired Hunter Biden to influence US policy, special counsel says

Why doesn't Harris get with Biden and make no taxes on tips happen now?

That sure would screw Trump lol

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes… that is what is being litigate on a state by state level

No, many Red states want total bans. Not banning third trimester abortions, which are rarely done and almost always to save the life of the mother anyways, but banning it before many women even know they're pregnant.

 

[Heyo]

Maybe your nomenclature is wrong? After all, a baby that is in the womb is still a baby. A 6 month old that is taken out of the womb isn’t experiencing a sudden “transformation” from a fetus to a baby. It was a baby in the womb and it was a baby outside the womb even if you want to call it within your definition of “fetus".

It’s logical as well as scientific.

So what is the issue you have?

You are trying to redefine two things you have no idea about, logic and science. I'm trying to correct you (and others who might be persuaded by you), and I'm doing you a service. It can be very expensive to try to redefine science. Remember Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District? They thought they can redefine science, and it cost them about $1,000,000.
You are clearly wrong, and insisting on using the wrong terminology doesn't help the debate.

 

[muhammad_isa]

We don't and that's very problematic, especially in rural places which are broadly under served..

Quite .. it's often a question of resources.

As for procedures, which is what I was getting at, it is simply unethical to put people's healthcare to a vote..

Somebody has to be responsible for how those resources are used, and I would have
thought that it would be preferable for those sorts of decisions to be made on a local
basis. That's all I was saying.
i.e. I don't think it is helpful for politicians to force local health bodies to choose to spend on some
procedures at the expense of others

..thus this is properly a federal issue to ensure people have equal access to the needed procedures.

The only thing that can do that, is having a large proportion of GDP spent on public health.
This inflates health insurance, and consequently taxes.

I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with 'cutting taxes', but there needs to be a balance.
There has to be a line somewhere, and clearly, Trump's policies are divisive .. which is not
healthy for the nation as a whole.

 

[muhammad_isa]

This is a situation, IMO, that should be federal..

Well, Trump is clearly MAKING it federal, with his proposals. It's not 'the other lot' who
is suggesting controversial legislation on abortion.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Government regulations are a necessity. The difficulty is in finding the correct balance for ALL the people.

Yes.

 

[muhammad_isa]

It sounds like you are upset… why?

..because Trump is a far-right politician, as far as Europe is concerned, and is causing
division world-wide.

 

[PureX]

So? The qualification is “dependent"

More irrelevant semantics. Once the baby is born, it becomes all our responsibility. And there is no question about it's 'human entity'.

So when in doubt… kill it?

No, when in doubt, stop presuming that your own righteousness should rule over the lives and decisions of the mother's that your God has put in charge of that fetus.

I am pro-life and not pro-death.

Everyone is pro life, not pro death.

They have established a different heart-beat from the mom at 5 - 6 weeks.

It's not a beating heart that make us a human being.

I disagree with your opinion.

That's fine. Lots of people disagree about a lot of things. In the end we all have to decide for ourselves. Anything else is just trying to defy the freedom God gave us because we think we know better what God wants. That we are God's equals. God's 'right hand'.

God has determined that until we are born, we are the responsibility of the woman within who's body we are dependent upon for our existence. That is how it is, and that is how we should respect it as being. You can opine any way you like about it, but you have no right to force your opinions on the mother's to whom your God has given this responsibility.

 

[fantome profane]

Yes… that is what is being litigate on a state by state level

And it will be on the ballot.

Here’s Where Abortion Is On The Ballot In November—As Nebraska Measures Upheld In Court

Ten states have measures set for the November ballot.

www.forbes.com

And I suspect even when it is not officially on the ballot, it will still have an impact on how people vote.

 

[Kenny]

You are trying to redefine two things you have no idea about, logic and science. I'm trying to correct you (and others who might be persuaded by you), and I'm doing you a service. It can be very expensive to try to redefine science. Remember Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District? They thought they can redefine science, and it cost them about $1,000,000.
You are clearly wrong, and insisting on using the wrong terminology doesn't help the debate.

I don’t agree with your opinion. Your site doesn’t address the issue. A fallacy.

 

[Kenny]

..because Trump is a far-right politician, as far as Europe is concerned, and is causing
division world-wide.

But he isn’t far-right. The division is coming from the far-left He is, however, against Islam’s radical group that wants to destroy Israel. But that isn’t far-right… that is just common sense.

 

[Kenny]

More irrelevant semantics. Once the baby is born, it becomes all our responsibility. And there is no question about it's 'human entity'.

No.. you are not responsible for my children. And it isn’t irrelevant… it is your semantics that is irrelevant.

No, when in doubt, stop presuming that your own righteousness should rule over the lives and decisions of the mother's that your God has put in charge of that fetus.

Every law is a group of people imposing righteousness. Are you against righteousness? And every law has someone who doesn’t agree with it.

Everyone is pro life, not pro death.

I can’t hear what you are saying because what you are doing is so loud.

It's not a beating heart that make us a human being.

I haven’t seen a human being that doesn’t have a heart unless you apply it figuratively.

That's fine. Lots of people disagree about a lot of things. In the end we all have to decide for ourselves. Anything else is just trying to defy the freedom God gave us because we think we know better what God wants. That we are God's equals. God's 'right hand'.

Yes… and that what we are dealing with in every state… we are deciding for ourselves what will be law.

God has determined that until we are born, we are the responsibility of the woman within who's body we are dependent upon for our existence. That is how it is, and that is how we should respect it as being. You can opine any way you like about it, but you have no right to force your opinions on the mother's to whom your God has given this responsibility.

Contradictory in essence. The baby is not the same as the mother.

 

[fantome profane]

I haven’t seen a human being that doesn’t have a heart unless you apply it figuratively.

So you are saying that a fetus that does not have a heart is not a human being.

 

[Kenny]

So you are saying that a fetus that does not have a heart is not a human being.

No one really knows. What I am saying is that the standard today is the heartbeat in many places. In other places a 9 month baby in the womb is a blob of tissue. Each according to what they believe the value of life is.

 

[muhammad_isa]

But he isn’t far-right..

I said from the perspective of Europe .. and many in the US too.

1. First, he has shown that it´s possible to come to power by democratic electoral means and then subvert the state from within, as other rulers in Eastern Europe (Hungary and Poland), Turkey, Brazil, the Philippines and Russia are doing. At the same time, he has demonstrated that in order to remain in power, elections can be delegitimized through lies, fake news, the uses of loyal social networks, while blaming mainstream journalism for bias, and mobilizing paramilitary forces on the streets.
2. Second, he has promoted the idea that in order to succeed economically (following his example), all state regulations must be eliminated, and those that exist sidestepped, going so far in fact as to decriminalize corruption.
3. Third, Trumpism has normalized racism, sexism, and contempt for the left, environmental defenders and all those who represent the liberal agenda of diversity and human rights that has developed since the 1960s. It has articulated in public the rejection of immigrants and refugee claimants that people previously refrained from expressing. Trump spoke out and denigrated these claimants openly. As George Packer wrote, “not because he couldn’t control his impulses, but intentionally, even systematically, in order to demolish the norms that would otherwise have constrained his power. To his supporters, his shamelessness became a badge of honesty and strength”.
4. Fourth, it has reaffirmed the legitimacy of pro-Nazi groups, extremist militias, and conspiratorial groups armed and organized against the state. His adherence to conspiracy theories further fueled these groups in their fervor for rising up in arms to defend their idea of America.
5. Fifth, since the Covid-19 pandemic broke out, Trump has consistently discredited science, promoting instead conspiratorial and dangerously superstitious interpretations.
6. Sixth, Trumpism captures the idea of the nation for sectarian, anti-democratic and exclusive purposes.
7. Seventh, Trump has promoted a political and nationalist conception of religion, through his alliance with evangelicals. In this way he has successfully regressed by centuries the separation between the state and religion.
8. And eighth, he has indicated that in foreign policy each country must defend its interests with transactional methods, moving away from any cooperative policy, despising and weakening the multilateral system, starting with the agreements and resolutions of the United Nations.

Authoritarian rulers, as well as aspiring to govern and mobilize sectors of their societies, have taken inspiration from the current president of the United States, who will foreseeably continue to use his influence (and the weight of the many millions of people who have voted for him).
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