Trump: Officially Next President!!!

[esmith]

Mike Flynn is a lobbyist who lost his job giving classified information to Pakistan without approval.

Steven Mnuchin:

"In 2009, Mnuchin put together a group of billionaire investors, including George Soros and hedge-fund titan John Paulson, that bought failed California-based bank IndyMac, a big mortgage lender. The FDIC agreed to absorb the losses of the bank above a certain threshold.

The bank was renamed OneWest Bank, and Mnuchin became its chairman and CEO. The bank developed a reputation during the recession for being quick to foreclose on delinquent homeowners, closing on more than 36,000 households under Mnuchin, according the housing-advocacy group California Reinvestment Coalition. In 2011, protesters went to Mnuchin's Bel Air mansion with a sign that read, "Stop Taking Our Homes."

Betsy Devos:

"She served on the board of the Action Institute, which has supported abolishing child labor laws, and has advocated to overturn the separation of church and state. Devos’ husband, Richard Devos, co-founded the multilevel marketing pyramid scheme Amway. A School Reform Pac once directed by Betsy DeVos currently owes the state of Ohio $5.3 million in fines for violating campaign finance regulations."

Nikki Haley:

"Nikki Haley, Drumpf’s pick for U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, has a net worth of $1.6 million. In 2012, Haley was investigated while serving as South Carolina’s Governor for illegal lobbying practices."

Others in the transition team:

"As reported by The Intercept’s Lee Fang, Drumpf’s transition team was stacked with corporate lobbyists. Though at least three lobbyists were removed after the imposition of an ethics rule, those who were not listed as removed include; “adviser Eric Ueland, a Senate Republican staffer who previously lobbied for Goldman Sachs; and Transition General Counsel William Palatucci, an attorney in New Jersey whose lobbying firm represents Aetna and Verizon. Rick Holt, Christine Ciccone, Rich Bagger, and Mike Ferguson are among the other corporate lobbyists helping to manage the transition effort,” wrote Fang."

Ben Carson is an admitted attempted murderer.

And that really isn't even close to all...

Boy you are sure grasping at straws.
Just out of curiosity would you like to see and in what position. Names specific please.

 

[dust1n]

Boy you are sure grasping at straws.
Just out of curiosity would you like to see and in what position. Names specific please.

Grasping at straws.. you just said you don't think any of Cabinet picks with Goldman Sachs, while I can think of at least three offhand.

I gave what you asked for. You want me to name specific people I would put in those positions? I don't know... I don't have an entire transition team with me, nor am I getting paid to do any of that. But I certainly wouldn't mistakenly pick multiple Goldman Sachs vets and say, "I don't think we got any Goldman Sachs vets."

 

[Parchment]

Putin has no regards for freedom of religion, speech, association, and he takes based on long-expired Cold War bull****.

This will probably be seen as lies and manipulations but please watch it in it's entirety and cross reference as you see fit.

 

[esmith]

Grasping at straws.. you just said you don't think any of Cabinet picks with Goldman Sachs, while I can think of at least three offhand.

Where did I say "don't think any of any of Cabinet picks with Goldman Sachs" Think you better try reading my comment again. I said:
"I do not think there is a person by the name of Golfman Sachs in the cabinet appointments."

I gave what you asked for. You want me to name specific people I would put in those positions? I don't know... I don't have an entire transition team with me, nor am I getting paid to do any of that. But I certainly wouldn't mistakenly pick multiple Goldman Sachs vets and say, "I don't think we got any Goldman Sachs vets."

Don't you want the most knowledgeable person in Cabinet positions? Or do you prefer the political elitists that knows dip-diddly-squat.

 

[Revoltingest]

Betsy Devos:

"She served on the board of the Action Institute, which has supported abolishing child labor laws ...

Before checking the many other extraordinary claims, I'd like to see support for this one.
Are the other ones of similar cromulence?

 

[dust1n]

Before checking the many other extraordinary claims, I'd like to see support for this one.
Are the other ones of similar cromulence?

"DeVos, the Acton Institute. and Child Labor

Now that Betsy DeVos is set to be our next Secretary of Education, we have a few weeks to unpack some of her intriguing associations.

We already know the basics-- DeVos is a rich patron of the GOP establishment, DeVos wants vouchers very badly, and DeVos wants tax dollars to flow freely to white Christian schools. If you want to now what DeVos policies look like in practice, simply look at Detroit, where she has largely gotten her way.


DeVos money is used to support many organizations, some of which are already well-known, but some of which, like the Acton Institute, are not so familiar. But a look at the Acton Institute gives us a good look inside the DeVos mindset.

The Acton Institute was founded in 1990 in Grand Rapis by Fr. Robert A. Sirico and Kris Alan Mauren and was named after Lord Acton (the "absolute power corrupts absolutely"). Their website says their mission is "to promote a free and virtuous society characterized by individual liberty and sustained by religious principles."

Acton is a member of the State Policy Network, the Heritage Foundation's loose collection of right-wing and libertarian thinky tanks, but unlike some of their strictly political brethren, Acton is all about the religious aspects. While they don't quite rise to the level of "greed is good," they do rise to the level of "capitalism is God's most blessed way of sorting out the world." (My words, not theirs) The Institute puts out several print publications, including Religion & Liberty and the Journal of Markets & Morality.

They also run a blog, and that provides a variety of astonishing pieces. Here are just a few recent titles: "Give Thanks for the Miracle of the Marketplace," "Does Acts 2-5 Teach Socialism" (answer: absolutely not), and "Defending Capitalism Is Like Recycling." They also like links to the Foundation for Economic Education like "Thanksgiving Was a Triumph of Capitalism over Collectivism."

It's a spin-off of a FEE article that gave Acton this next winner: "Bring back Child Labor: Work Is a Gift Our Kids Can Handle." It's spun from an article by Jeffrey Tucker, who is an associate of the Acton Institute, Director of Digital development at FEE, and an adjunct at the Makinac Center for Public Policy, another DeVos-backed group that has been instrumental in pushing DeVos policies in Michigan."

CURMUDGUCATION: DeVos, the Acton Institute. and Child Labor

"A think tank funded by Dick and Betsy DeVos, Donald Drumpf's pick to be Education secretary, published this piece endorsing the return of child labor.

That's just a sidelight, though, to her work to destroy public education and to fight meaningful oversight of charter and private schools and other ways to funnel public dollars away from conventional schools."

This is not fake news: Advocacy of child labor in background of Education secretary pick

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Which is clearly a problem when the majority of those who made the effort to go vote aren't getting the candidate we chose. It becomes a problem when four years when, supposedly, a PV win of 5 million votes and a EC of over 100 was "no mandate," but now, with a PV loss of nearly 3 million and a EC margin of about 60, and the Left is supposed to just shut up and accept it because Trump was the big winner? If there is ever a time to call "no mandate," it is indeed when the "winner" looses the vote of the People by a comfortable margin and has a slim margin from the EC.
Our "winner-take-all" approach is, itself, a problem.

 

[dust1n]

I wouldn't even bother coming first if my competitor has a handicap that puts them ahead by 2.5 million units.

 

[dust1n]

Where did I say "don't think any of any of Cabinet picks with Goldman Sachs" Think you better try reading my comment again. I said:
"I do not think there is a person by the name of Golfman Sachs in the cabinet appointments."

Ah, that's true. I misread it.

In which case, I still wasn't "grasping at straws."

You asked: "What swap people are you referring to? Please be specific by name."

In which, I answered, specifically by name.

Don't you want the most knowledgeable person in Cabinet positions? Or do you prefer the political elitists that knows dip-diddly-squat.

I'd prefer the former, but I'm wondering why Trump is picking the latter, minus the fact that a couple are just your normal everyday private entity elitists who also have bad policy and no workable experience in government.

 

[Revoltingest]

"DeVos, the Acton Institute. and Child Labor

We already know the basics-- DeVos is a rich patron.....

Is being a "rich patron" a bad thing? Some might call it "charitable".
If so, then this would demonize George Soros too.....but we never hear that criticism from Democrats.

......DeVos wants vouchers very badly, and DeVos wants tax dollars to flow freely to white Christian schools.

This is awfully subjective, unsupported, & therefore suspicious.

If you want to now what DeVos policies look like in practice, simply look at Detroit, where she has largely gotten her way.

What does "largely gotten her way" even mean?
What specific actions has she effected there?

DeVos money is used to support many organizations, some of which are already well-known, but some of which, like the Acton Institute, are not so familiar. But a look at the Acton Institute gives us a good look inside the DeVos mindset.

The Acton Institute was founded in 1990 in Grand Rapis by Fr. Robert A. Sirico and Kris Alan Mauren and was named after Lord Acton (the "absolute power corrupts absolutely"). Their website says their mission is "to promote a free and virtuous society characterized by individual liberty and sustained by religious principles."

The "individual liberty" thing is particularly seditious in the minds of lefties, but I'm OK with it.
As for religious principles, that's something we must tolerate on both the right & the left (who
also talk of their religion inspired goals).

Acton is a member of the State Policy Network, the Heritage Foundation's loose collection of right-wing and libertarian thinky tanks, but unlike some of their strictly political brethren, Acton is all about the religious aspects. While they don't quite rise to the level of "greed is good," they do rise to the level of "capitalism is God's most blessed way of sorting out the world." (My words, not theirs) The Institute puts out several print publications, including Religion & Liberty and the Journal of Markets & Morality.

They also run a blog, and that provides a variety of astonishing pieces. Here are just a few recent titles: "Give Thanks for the Miracle of the Marketplace," "Does Acts 2-5 Teach Socialism" (answer: absolutely not), and "Defending Capitalism Is Like Recycling." They also like links to the Foundation for Economic Education like "Thanksgiving Was a Triumph of Capitalism over Collectivism."

It's a spin-off of a FEE article that gave Acton this next winner: "Bring back Child Labor: Work Is a Gift Our Kids Can Handle." It's spun from an article by Jeffrey Tucker, who is an associate of the Acton Institute, Director of Digital development at FEE, and an adjunct at the Makinac Center for Public Policy, another DeVos-backed group that has been instrumental in pushing DeVos policies in Michigan."

I perused the article, & find some merit in letting kids work.
I had several jobs when in elementary, junior high, & high school.
It wasn't about getting rid of child labor laws.

CURMUDGUCATION: DeVos, the Acton Institute. and Child Labor

"A think tank funded by Dick and Betsy DeVos, Donald Drumpf's pick to be Education secretary, published this piece endorsing the return of child labor.

That's just a sidelight, though, to her work to destroy public education and to fight meaningful oversight of charter and private schools and other ways to funnel public dollars away from conventional schools."

This is not fake news: Advocacy of child labor in background of Education secretary pick

This isn't fake news according to the categories I enumerated in another thread.
It's agenda driven propaganda.

 

[dust1n]

Is being a "rich patron" a bad thing? Some might call it "charitable".
If so, then this would demonize George Soros too.....but we never hear that criticism from Democrats.

Lol, Leftists have been criticizing "globalism" since the late 80's. I feel no reason to defend Soros; besides the fact his dad was a mayor pusher of Esperanto, I don't particularly care what he does; at least, it's not more or less the same general corruption markets force onto governments all over the place.

This is awfully subjective, unsupported, & therefore suspicious.

Something something, government largess, something, crony capitalism, something...

"For nearly 30 years, as a philanthropist, activist and Republican fund-raiser, she has pushed to give families taxpayer money in the form of vouchers to attend private and parochial schools, pressed to expand publicly funded but privately run charter schools, and tried to strip teacher unions of their influence.

A daughter of privilege, she also married into it; her husband, Dick, who ran unsuccessfully for governor of Michigan a decade ago, is heir to the Amway fortune. Like many education philanthropists, she argues that children’s ZIP codes should not confine them to failing schools...

As a candidate, Mr. Trump proposed steering $20 billion in existing federal money toward vouchers that families could use to help pay for private or parochial schools, perhaps tapping into $15 billion in so-called Title I money that goes to schools that serve the country’s poorest children. He called school choice “the civil rights issues of our time."

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/23/u...s-steered-money-from-public-schools.html?_r=0

You know, I can't honestly think of how giving $20bil to these people, to spend taxpayer money towards their friends who run companies. I mean, I'm not a libertarian economist though, so I'm not sure if that gets the official seal of free market or not.

What does "largely gotten her way" even mean?
What specific actions has she effected there?

"In Detroit, parents of school-age children have plenty of choices, thanks to the nation's largest urban network of charter schools.

What remains in short supply is quality.

In Brightmoor, the only high school left is Detroit Community Schools, a charter boasting more than a decade of abysmal test scores and, until recently, a superintendent who earned $130,000 a year despite a dearth of educational experience or credentials.

On the west side, another charter school, Hope Academy, has been serving the community around Grand River and Livernois for 20 years. Its test scores have been among the lowest in the state throughout those two decades; in 2013 the school ranked in the first percentile, the absolute bottom for academic performance. Two years later, its charter was renewed.

Or if you live downtown, you could try Woodward Academy, a charter that has limped along near the bottom of school achievement since 1998, while its operator has been allowed to expand into other communities.

For students enrolled in schools of choice — that is, schools in nearby districts who have opened their doors to children who live outside district boundaries — it's not much better. Kids who depend on Detroit's problematic public transit are too far away from the state's top-performing school districts — and most of those districts don't participate in the schools of choice program, anyway.

This deeply dysfunctional educational landscape — where failure is rewarded with opportunities for expansion and "choice" means the opposite for tens of thousands of children — is no accident. It was created by an ideological lobby that has zealously championed free-market education reform for decades, with little regard for the outcome.

And at the center of that lobby is Betsy DeVos, the west Michigan advocate whose family has contributed millions of dollars to the cause of school choice and unregulated charter expansion throughout Michigan...

Betsy DeVos and other family members have given more than $2 million to the PAC since 2001. GLEP has spent that money essentially buying policy outcomes that have helped Michigan's charter industry grow while shielding it from accountability.

This summer, the DeVos family contributed $1.45 million over two months — an astounding average of $25,000 a day — to Michigan GOP lawmakers and the state party after the Republican-led Legislature derailed a bipartisan provision that would have provided more charter school oversight in Detroit.

GLEP also pushed hard — and successfully — to lift the cap on charter schools a few years ago, even though Michigan already had among the highest number of charters in the nation despite statistics suggesting charters weren't substantively outperforming traditional public schools.

And in 2000, the DeVos extended family spent $5.6 million on an unsuccessful campaign to amend Michigan's constitution to allow school vouchers — the only choice tool not currently in play in Michigan.

Even if Betsy DeVos ceased her substantial contributions to pro-school choice lawmakers, or to GLEP’s PAC, what credibility would she have in a policy job that requires her to be an advocate for all schools? Would her family divest from the PAC if she were Secretary of Education? Rein in campaign spending? And even if it did, how could she credibly distance herself from her history as a lobbyist?"

Betsy DeVos and the twilight of public education

But, I guess what does an editor know right... damn Michigan Media.

The "individual liberty" thing is particularly seditious in the minds of lefties, but I'm OK with it.
As for religious principles, that's something we must tolerate on both the right & the left (who
also talk of their religion inspired goals).

I mean... if you want to pay for religious schools for students to go to, or non-religious schools that derive profit, I'd like it to be done on your own dime... not everyone's.

I perused the article, & find some merit in letting kids work.
I had several jobs when in elementary, junior high, & high school.
It wasn't about getting rid of child labor laws.

Were any of those jobs post child-labor laws? ;]

"In our policy and governing institutions, what if we put power back in the hands of parents and kids, dismantling the range of excessive legal restrictions, minimum wage fixings, and regulations that lead our children to work less and work later? (This could be something as simple as letting a 14-year-old work a few hours a week at a fast-food restaurant or grocery store.)"

I'm sorry, Rev. Remind me again which laws it is again that currently makes it illegal for a fast food place or grocery store to hire a 14 year old?

This isn't fake news according to the categories I enumerated in another thread.
It's agenda driven propaganda.

Ha. Reminds me of the old days. Where people require extra meticulous documentation from others espousing an opinion, so that one can point out one sentence that might be slightly off, thus dissolving them from any responsibility of presenting any documentation of their own to evidence any of their own claims...

 

[Revoltingest]

Lol, Leftists have been criticizing "globalism" since the late 80's. I feel no reason to defend Soros; besides the fact his dad was a mayor pusher of Esperanto, I don't particularly care what he does; at least, it's not more or less the same general corruption markets force onto governments all over the place.



Something something, government largess, something, crony capitalism, something...

"For nearly 30 years, as a philanthropist, activist and Republican fund-raiser, she has pushed to give families taxpayer money in the form of vouchers to attend private and parochial schools, pressed to expand publicly funded but privately run charter schools, and tried to strip teacher unions of their influence.

A daughter of privilege, she also married into it; her husband, Dick, who ran unsuccessfully for governor of Michigan a decade ago, is heir to the Amway fortune. Like many education philanthropists, she argues that children’s ZIP codes should not confine them to failing schools...

As a candidate, Mr. Trump proposed steering $20 billion in existing federal money toward vouchers that families could use to help pay for private or parochial schools, perhaps tapping into $15 billion in so-called Title I money that goes to schools that serve the country’s poorest children. He called school choice “the civil rights issues of our time."

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/23/u...s-steered-money-from-public-schools.html?_r=0

You know, I can't honestly think of how giving $20bil to these people, to spend taxpayer money towards their friends who run companies. I mean, I'm not a libertarian economist though, so I'm not sure if that gets the official seal of free market or not.



"In Detroit, parents of school-age children have plenty of choices, thanks to the nation's largest urban network of charter schools.

What remains in short supply is quality.

In Brightmoor, the only high school left is Detroit Community Schools, a charter boasting more than a decade of abysmal test scores and, until recently, a superintendent who earned $130,000 a year despite a dearth of educational experience or credentials.

On the west side, another charter school, Hope Academy, has been serving the community around Grand River and Livernois for 20 years. Its test scores have been among the lowest in the state throughout those two decades; in 2013 the school ranked in the first percentile, the absolute bottom for academic performance. Two years later, its charter was renewed.

Or if you live downtown, you could try Woodward Academy, a charter that has limped along near the bottom of school achievement since 1998, while its operator has been allowed to expand into other communities.

For students enrolled in schools of choice — that is, schools in nearby districts who have opened their doors to children who live outside district boundaries — it's not much better. Kids who depend on Detroit's problematic public transit are too far away from the state's top-performing school districts — and most of those districts don't participate in the schools of choice program, anyway.

This deeply dysfunctional educational landscape — where failure is rewarded with opportunities for expansion and "choice" means the opposite for tens of thousands of children — is no accident. It was created by an ideological lobby that has zealously championed free-market education reform for decades, with little regard for the outcome.

And at the center of that lobby is Betsy DeVos, the west Michigan advocate whose family has contributed millions of dollars to the cause of school choice and unregulated charter expansion throughout Michigan...

Betsy DeVos and other family members have given more than $2 million to the PAC since 2001. GLEP has spent that money essentially buying policy outcomes that have helped Michigan's charter industry grow while shielding it from accountability.

This summer, the DeVos family contributed $1.45 million over two months — an astounding average of $25,000 a day — to Michigan GOP lawmakers and the state party after the Republican-led Legislature derailed a bipartisan provision that would have provided more charter school oversight in Detroit.

GLEP also pushed hard — and successfully — to lift the cap on charter schools a few years ago, even though Michigan already had among the highest number of charters in the nation despite statistics suggesting charters weren't substantively outperforming traditional public schools.

And in 2000, the DeVos extended family spent $5.6 million on an unsuccessful campaign to amend Michigan's constitution to allow school vouchers — the only choice tool not currently in play in Michigan.

Even if Betsy DeVos ceased her substantial contributions to pro-school choice lawmakers, or to GLEP’s PAC, what credibility would she have in a policy job that requires her to be an advocate for all schools? Would her family divest from the PAC if she were Secretary of Education? Rein in campaign spending? And even if it did, how could she credibly distance herself from her history as a lobbyist?"

Betsy DeVos and the twilight of public education

But, I guess what does an editor know right... damn Michigan Media.



I mean... if you want to pay for religious schools for students to go to, or non-religious schools that derive profit, I'd like it to be done on your own dime... not everyone's.



Were any of those jobs post child-labor laws? ;]

"In our policy and governing institutions, what if we put power back in the hands of parents and kids, dismantling the range of excessive legal restrictions, minimum wage fixings, and regulations that lead our children to work less and work later? (This could be something as simple as letting a 14-year-old work a few hours a week at a fast-food restaurant or grocery store.)"

I'm sorry, Rev. Remind me again which laws it is again that currently makes it illegal for a fast food place or grocery store to hire a 14 year old?



Ha. Reminds me of the old days. Where people require extra meticulous documentation from others espousing an opinion, so that one can point out one sentence that might be slightly off, thus dissolving them from any responsibility of presenting any documentation of their own to evidence any of their own claims...

I happen to like vouchers.
It protects the rights of kids to get a good education when public schools fail.
(I don't believe she's out to destroy public schools.)

I strongly recommend that you find less frothy criticism of Trump's picks.
When it's too over the top, it loses credibility.

 

[dust1n]

I happen to like vouchers.
It protects the rights of kids to get a good education when public schools fail.
(I don't believe she's out to destroy public schools.)

Wow, statist.

In essence what you are saying is that you are for the federal government taking tax payer money and giving them to private entities with minimal oversight with the task of teaching hundreds of thousands of students...

Is this in the Libertarian Party platform somewhere?

I strongly recommend that you find less frothy criticism of Trump's picks.
When it's too over the top, it loses credibility.

It is assumed your credibility is established over various people writing because...

 

[Revoltingest]

Wow, statist.

It's slightly less statist than the current system.
Baby steps towards my eventual takeover.

In essence what you are saying is that you are for the federal government taking tax payer money and giving them to private entities with minimal oversight with the task of teaching hundreds of thousands of students...

Who says oversight need be minimal?
But mismanagement of Detroit & Flint schools has been a big problem which government was determined to not address.

Is this in the Libertarian Party platform somewhere?

I haven't looked lately.

It is assumed your credibility is established over various people writing because...

When I see an excess of hyperbole, extreme inference, & polemics I don't trust it.

 

[dust1n]

It's slightly less statist than the current system.
Baby steps towards my eventual takeover.

A little less statist; a lot more crony capitalism.
I'm not sure what you'd get out of it though.

Who says oversight need be minimal?

I presume from the story I just quoted, which I guess was tl;dr:

"This summer, the DeVos family contributed $1.45 million over two months — an astounding average of $25,000 a day — to Michigan GOP lawmakers and the state party after the Republican-led Legislature derailed a bipartisan provision that would have provided more charter school oversight in Detroit."

I guess it only need be as minimum as the charter schools directly being over-sought want it to be. That seems like a reasonable amount. Heck, I mean; do they even really need to perform better than a normal school at all?

But mismanagement of Detroit & Flint schools has been a big problem which government was determined to not address.

I thought you'd be happy about that. The governments have to buy millions of water bottles at a marked up cost and them deliver them door to door. I mean, not ideal, but one step closer from having the state mess that one up again. Who knew under-funding our water infrastructure when it's currently well documented the damages lead poisoning has on people who could be put off for so long. I do not envy the Michigian. That's the proper nomenclature, right?

I haven't looked lately.

Guessing Gary's even more libertarian platform didn't appeal to you?

When I see an excess of hyperbole, extreme inference, & polemics I don't trust it.

Well, that's an easy way to not really have to address any of it then with a sentence. There's points for brevity.

 

[Revoltingest]

A little less statist; a lot more crony capitalism.

Crony capitalism isn't inherent in having a private company perform a fee for service.

I'm not sure what you'd get out of it though.

I get nothing.....no kids in school anymore.

I presume from the story I just quoted, which I guess was tl;dr:

"This summer, the DeVos family contributed $1.45 million over two months — an astounding average of $25,000 a day — to Michigan GOP lawmakers and the state party after the Republican-led Legislature derailed a bipartisan provision that would have provided more charter school oversight in Detroit."

I guess it only need be as minimum as the charter schools directly being over-sought want it to be. That seems like a reasonable amount. Heck, I mean; do they even really need to perform better than a normal school at all?



I thought you'd be happy about that. The governments have to buy millions of water bottles at a marked up cost and them deliver them door to door. I mean, not ideal, but one step closer from having the state mess that one up again. Who knew under-funding our water infrastructure when it's currently well documented the damages lead poisoning has on people who could be put off for so long. I do not envy the Michigian. That's the proper nomenclature, right?

Now you're bringing in the lead in the water problem, which isn't related to education.
And in this case, it was an all government affair, with government employees even'
being prosecuted....
Emergency managers, city officials charged in Flint water crisis

Guessing Gary's even more libertarian platform didn't appeal to you?

I'd have voted for him if it weren't imperative to keep Hillary out of office.

Well, that's an easy way to not really have to address any of it then with a sentence. There's points for brevity.

I do take the easy way when I can.
If something smells of vapid polemics, I don't waste my time debunking it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You suggest our claim of favoring personal liberty is disingenuous?
What could I possibly do that you'd ever see?
We do what we can, but we are a scant few in positions of power.

When they actually move to stop the Religious Right, deny them, and push them into a marginalized position with the Republican party, I'll be convinced their doing more than just talking about personal liberty. And I'm not just talking about those who are in power under the Libertarian name, I am especially talking about the Libertarian-Social/Religious Conservative alliance. The Libertarians, now more so than ever, have a golden opportunity to bridge gaps and win over hordes of Democrat and Republican voters, and either leave the Republican party being absolutely nothing left but the Religious Right, or pushing the Religious Right out and forcing them to start their own party.
But I doubt this happens, and they will probably continue to walk hand-in-hand with a group that wants us all living in accordance with their own religious morality.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"Very telling", how exactly? What significant insights can you really assume to have gathered from a simple compliment I posted about Vladimir Putin?

Very telling when words of admiration are used to describe a man who has no regard or granting of things that should be considered basic and guaranteed human rights.

 

[Revoltingest]

When they actually move to stop the Religious Right, deny them, and push them into a marginalized position with the Republican party, I'll be convinced their doing more than just talking about personal liberty. And I'm not just talking about those who are in power under the Libertarian name, I am especially talking about the Libertarian-Social/Religious Conservative alliance. The Libertarians, now more so than ever, have a golden opportunity to bridge gaps and win over hordes of Democrat and Republican voters, and either leave the Republican party being absolutely nothing left but the Religious Right, or pushing the Religious Right out and forcing them to start their own party.
But I doubt this happens, and they will probably continue to walk hand-in-hand with a group that wants us all living in accordance with their own religious morality.

I haven't seen you do anything to stop the religious right.
Does this mean you only talk about it too?

There are a great many issues where we Libertarians might find common ground
with either one side or the other. If you want us to avoid the right, it won't happen.
We're all about making progress for our agendas....not demonizing groups.
Note that we were pro-abortion & pro-gay marriage long before even the Democrats.
Your own Hillary opposed gay marriage until only recently.
Even Dick Cheney is more liberal.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I haven't seen you do anything to stop the religious right.

Other than writing Representatives and voting, I'm not in any power to do anything. However, there are many Libertarians within the Republican party, who are elected and in office, but yet the Republican party platform itself includes language to subject the population to Christian values, and the Libertarians are still going along with it rather than igniting a moderate firestorm to do away with it.