Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
At that time the Trump's accounting firm was still supporting him. It was only later that they said none of his claims could be trusted.
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Trump ordered to pay nearly 355 million in NY fraud case.
- Thread starter fantome profane
- Start date
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
I'm sure that U.S. Senators are waiting with bated breath to hear all about your insights into U.S. law. /sarc
Seventh Amendment:
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
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Sounds like mischief in accountingland too.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
In other words, you don't know what you are talking about.
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
As to Trump being the most successful developers in New York City. That does not appear to be the case. Not according to this article, that was written before the trial even started:
www.nyrealestatetrend.com
Nor this one which focuses on the most successful housing market developers:
Nor does he appear in this one:
www.thegentlemansjournal.com
Not even the right wing New York Post in an article written in 2015 before he became President has Trump on their list:
nypost.com
He may have been up there in the 1990's. But that was a long time ago.
New York's Top Successful Real Estate Developers
Learn more about the biggest real estate developers in New York who are leading the industry in the city.
www.nyrealestatetrend.com
Nor this one which focuses on the most successful housing market developers:
These developers build the most homes in NYC
The Chetrit Group and Extell top the list of New York City developers ranked by number of residential units under construction.
therealdeal.com
New York’s 10 most successful real estate developers | The Gentleman's Journal
Not even the right wing New York Post in an article written in 2015 before he became President has Trump on their list:
The 20 biggest power players in New York City real estate
With a staggering $10.1 billion in sales for the first quarter of this year — a 21 percent increase over 2014 — NYC’s residential real estate business is a global empire to be reckoned with. As are…
nypost.com
He may have been up there in the 1990's. But that was a long time ago.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The source shows how you are wrong.
It appears that NY's constitutionally dubious law
could've been fought. But Trump failed to litigate it.
That's the thing about rights....one must fight to
exercise them. I'm not justifying bad law, but I
do say that one can't just roll over, & expect that
government will do what's right.
Would a jury have been better for Trump?
Unlikely. He did business in NY. He should've
known the NY law that he'd be subject to when
he broke it. So justice was done...even if in a
questionable manner.
Excerpted....
Former President Donald Trump has complained repeatedly that the civil trial in New York, where he’s accused of business fraud, does not have a jury – and the fate of the case is up to Judge Arthur Engoron.
Trump’s lawyers say the New York state law that state Attorney General Letitia James used to bring the complaint against him – a civil statute giving the state attorney general wide latitude to go after “persistent fraud” in business – did not allow him to request a jury trial.
But legal experts familiar with New York state law say that the question of whether Trump could have sought a jury trial is complicated. While Trump may not have been likely to succeed, experts said the question of a jury trial is something that Trump’s lawyers could have tried to litigate.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Yes, the Constitution mentions Common Law, That does not mean that we have to follow it. The Tenth Amendment gives power to states. And the last time that I checked 10 comes after 7.
Tenth Amendment
Tenth Amendment ExplainedThe powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
And Trump had the right to a trial by jury. Didn't you know that? But guess what. You have to ask for a trial by jury. At the start of the trial the judge made sure that it was in the records that neither side requested a jury. There were no objections. There was no disagreement.
My take, is that Trump did not want all of his lawbreaking made public by a jury trial. The prosecutors would have had to have explained in detail to a jury on how Trump broke the law and he did not want that.
Laniakea
Not of this world
I can demand that you back up your claims with evidence.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, nothing unconstitutional about it. Trump chose not to have a jury. If one is going to say that "It was unconstitutional because Trump did not have a jury" one better make certain that he requested one.
From the article:
' “But Trump’s legal team absolutely could have requested a jury, litigated the issue, and then appealed had they lost.”
At the start of the trial, Engoron noted that no parties in the case requested a jury trial and that the law mandated a “bench trial” decided by a judge.'
Also, a long time ago, I found an article that explained how a jury trial has to be requested by at least one side. Otherwise the law mandates a bench trial. CNN may have made a slight mistake or the out of state lawyer did. I learned of this from a YouTube channel that is run by New York state lawyers.
Laniakea
Not of this world
Ah, so now you're ready to blame the supposed victim too?
Not so simple according to what I've read.
NY took a pretty aggressive stance to deny
jury trials.
The "choice" was his failure to litigate it,
which makes the issue moot (IMO).
I don't know if he requested one or not.
But if he had, his failure to fight denial
made it moot (IMO).
I phrase it differently....
A party who fails at basic due diligence
is also responsible for the consequences.
This could be a legal problem for the bank
if it tries to recoup lost potential interest
income.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
You left out the part about the powers that are reserved to the people. That doesn't bode well for your "Statutory Law is now the standard" doctrine.
Tenth Amendment:
And then there's this:
Ninth Amendment
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
And this:
Declaration of Independence:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I have been searching for the same source. It is clear from all of the sources that I found that he did have the right to a jury trial if he wanted one. I was hoping to find the same article that I found earlier where it explained how for civil case that at least one side has to request a jury and how long before the trial they can make that demand. It should be obvious that one cannot all of a sudden demand a jury the day before the trial.
At any rate it is in New York State law that for a civil trial if neither side requests a jury then it is by default a bench trial.
That was probably why the judge noted it at the start of the trial.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
So what? You are getting everything wrong here. Do you not understand that Trump could have requested a jury if he wanted one? New York State Law allows for a jury trial if one requests a jury. He never did so.
We agree that the issue is moot.
How do you think each of those things
relates to Trump's trial & judgements?
You’re too lazy to do your own homework.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Thinking more helps!!! I finally realized that the deadline for asking for a jury is what I should have searched for:
law.justia.com
"Any party served with a note of issue not containing such a demand may demand a trial by jury by serving upon each party a demand for a trial by jury and filing such demand in the office where the note of issue was filed within fifteen days after service of the note of issue. A demand shall not be accepted for filing unless a note of issue is filed in the action. If no party shall demand a trial by jury as provided herein, the right to trial by jury shall be deemed waived by all parties.
2022 New York Laws :: CVP - Civil Practice Law and Rules :: Article 41 - Trial by a Jury :: 4102 - Demand and Waiver of Trial by Jury; Specification of Issues.
Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes
"Any party served with a note of issue not containing such a demand may demand a trial by jury by serving upon each party a demand for a trial by jury and filing such demand in the office where the note of issue was filed within fifteen days after service of the note of issue. A demand shall not be accepted for filing unless a note of issue is filed in the action. If no party shall demand a trial by jury as provided herein, the right to trial by jury shall be deemed waived by all parties.