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Trump ordered to pay nearly 355 million in NY fraud case.

SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Laniakea said:
If Trump committed crimes that other people are prosecuted for, then why is there no precedent that anyone can point to? Who else was prosecuted and found guilty of what they went after Trump for?
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This has already been addressed.
Laniakea said:
And why is Kathy Hochul telling other business owners in NY they they have nothing to worry about? It's doubtful that every single other business in NY has already been investigated and all found innocent.
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This has already been addressed extensively as well. Do you not read the replies to your posts?
 
F

F1fan

Veteran Member
Laniakea said:
The punishment is for not knowing when to quit after you realized you lost.
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Which is why Trump was hit with an $83.3 million judgment the second time he defamed E. Jean Carroll. It's why Trump has been indicted for his actions after he lsot the 2020 election. He is still claiming he won.
Laniakea said:
Do you recognize when you lost now? Would you like me to show you again?
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You should ask your preferred candidate.
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Laniakea said:
Reading rambling posts is called a "total waste of time".
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Reading through a post that someone took the time to write to explain their position and answer your question in a debate forum is a "total waste of time" to you.
Well, that's what goes in these debate forums. Adults talking and sharing their positions and thoughts on various different subjects. Perhaps you'd be more comfortable on Twitter where dismissive one liners are the norm.
 
Clizby Wampuscat

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
Callisto said:
No, he doesn't. The 8th Amendment pertains to criminal cases, not civil cases.

The Eighth Amendment:

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.” This amendment prohibits the federal government from imposing unduly harsh penalties on criminal defendants​

National Constitution Center

Try researching reliable sources rather than believing wholesale everything Trump and his sycophants fabricate.
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Read the constitution, it says nothing about criminal cases only. It has been applied to civil forfeiture cases in the past.

www.law.cornell.edu

Excessive Fines

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Clizby Wampuscat said:
Read the constitution, it says nothing about criminal cases only. It has been applied to civil forfeiture cases in the past.

www.law.cornell.edu

Excessive Fines

www.law.cornell.edu www.law.cornell.edu
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But again: the judgment is just a matter of disgorgement. The only punitive element are the late penalties he'll have to pay if he doesn't pay what he owes promptly... and I expect that this is just the standard interest rate that would apply to any perp.

How could it ever be "excessive" for a thief to be required to pay back his ill-gotten gains?

Yes, the amount is massive, but it's only as big as it is because Trump profited massively from his fraud.
 
Clizby Wampuscat

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
metis said:
Can you provide even a shred of evidence for the above?
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"America is in uncharted territory. We are angrier and more deeply divided than we’ve ever been at any point in our history since the Civil War. And at the eye of the storm is Donald Trump, ripping families apart, threatening women’s most basic rights. I’m running for attorney general because I will never be afraid to challenge this illegitimate president when our fundamental rights are at stake. From the Muslim ban, to efforts to deport immigrants, to denying transgender students the ability to choose whatever bathroom they want, rolling back regulations to protect our planet, colluding with foreign powers, putting profits over people, dividing us in ways we haven’t seen in generations.

I look forward to going into the office of attorney general every day, suing him and then going home."

www.politifact.com

Sorting out Donald Trump’s attack on NY AG Letitia James

Just before former President Donald Trump invoked the Fifth Amendment and refused to answer questions from lawyers for N
www.politifact.com www.politifact.com

None of this sounds impartial at all. Read her entire comments.
 
Clizby Wampuscat

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
How are the fines excessive?

As the article explains, the amount is just "disgorgement" - i.e. paying back his ill-gotten gains. The judge noted that Trump's frauds:

- saved Trump $168 million in interest
- enabled one land deal that yielded $126 million in profit
- enabled another land deal with $60 million in profit


Even with a $344 million judgment against him, Trump is still getting a net profit of $10 million from his crimes (unless he racks up interest from skipping out on paying the judgment).
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Yet the plaintiff was the State of NY not the people involved in the transactions. The state of NY is getting the money, they were not defrauded. The fact is Trump was targeted by Letitia James, she said Trump was an illegitimate president and she was going to find something. Well she did, a case where everyone made money and no complaints were filed by anyone.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Clizby Wampuscat said:
Yet the plaintiff was the State of NY not the people involved in the transactions. The state of NY is getting the money, they were not defrauded. The fact is Trump was targeted by Letitia James, she said Trump was an illegitimate president and she was going to find something. Well she did, a case where everyone made money and no complaints were filed by anyone.
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So you don't object to the amount of the fine, only to its recipient?
 
Laniakea

Laniakea

Not of this world
SkepticThinker said:
Reading through a post that someone took the time to write to explain their position and answer your question in a debate forum is a "total waste of time" to you.
Well, that's what goes in these debate forums. Adults talking and sharing their positions and thoughts on various different subjects. Perhaps you'd be more comfortable on Twitter where dismissive one liners are the norm.
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You think they aren't the norm here?
 
Laniakea

Laniakea

Not of this world
9-10ths_Penguin said:
So you don't object to the amount of the fine, only to its recipient?
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You're the one who asked, "How could it ever be "excessive" for a thief to be required to pay back his ill-gotten gains?
CW was explaining to you that it has nothing to do with "paying back", as the money isn't even going to those LJ is claiming to be defrauded.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Laniakea said:
You're the one who asked, "How could it ever be "excessive" for a thief to be required to pay back his ill-gotten gains?
CW was explaining to you that it has nothing to do with "paying back", as the money isn't even going to those LJ is claiming to be defrauded.
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So again: the amount doesn't trouble you, just who's getting it?
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
Unable to cover full amount, Donald Trump offers to post $100M to appeal $454M fraud judgment citing

Donald Trump proposed on Wednesday to post a $100 million bond while appealing what he called an “exorbitant and punitive” $454 million fraud judgment in New York. State Attorney General Letitia James opposed the request.​
​
A New York judge on Feb. 16 ordered the former president and his namesake company to pay the government for ill-gotten gains from overstating the value of his real-estate. The verdict also barred Trump from doing business in New York for three years, which includes borrowing from New York-based banks. While Trump appeals the judgment, he is asking to postpone paying the full amount because he would have trouble posting the entire amount.​
​
“The exorbitant and punitive amount of the Judgment coupled with an unlawful and unconstitutional blanket prohibition on lending transactions would make it impossible to secure and post a complete bond,” Trump’s lawyers Clifford Robert and Alina Habba wrote. “Appellants nonetheless plan to secure and post a bond in the amount of $100 million.”​

www.usatoday.com

Unable to cover full amount, Donald Trump offers to post $100M to appeal $454M fraud judgment

Donald Trump offered to post a $100 million bond to appeal his $454 million New York fraud judgment, citing an inability to cover the full amount.
www.usatoday.com
 
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