Trump to FBI Director Comey: You're Fired!

[ADigitalArtist]

The Republican Party did not even exist when the Electoral College system was designed.
Ref.....
Electoral College (United States) - Wikipedia

And many Democrats were the pro-slavery party before the Civil War.
Ref....
History of the United States Democratic Party - Wikipedia

Republicans opposed slavery.
Ref....
History of the United States Republican Party - Wikipedia

Democratic republicans during John Adams time has much the same views on government control as they do now, the only thing that really flipped was the religious conservative aspect of the party. The Federalists were the majority of the abolitionists, not the Republicans, and they were for industry taxes, a national bank, and other divisive issues which split the parties to begin with.

 

[Revoltingest]

Democratic republicans during John Adams time has much the same views on government control as they do now, the only thing that really flipped was the religious conservative aspect of the party. The Federalists were the majority of the abolitionists, not the Republicans, and they were for industry taxes, a national bank, and other divisive issues which split the parties to begin with.

You're not making a case that the EC is a tool created for the Republican Party.
And trying to tarnish them as pro-slavery is indeed ironic, given the history of the
Democratic Party....pro-slavery...pro-Jim Cro...anti-civil rights.

Tis better to look at the system we have, with all its pluses & minuses,
& to consider improvement. Skip the demonization.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

You're not making a case that the EC is a tool created for the Republican Party.

Then you're not listening. The Republican party is the only party to have ever benefited from the EC, it was made for the Democratic Republicans, the fiscally conservative, states rights and pro-slavery Virginian South due to the importance they placed on government non-involvement and non-taxation of the South and the state's right to continue slavery.

 

[Revoltingest]

Then you're not listening. The Republican party is the only party to have ever benefited from the EC, it was made for the Democratic Republicans, the fiscally conservative, states rights and pro-slavery Virginian South due to the importance they placed on government non-involvement and non-taxation of the South and the state's right to continue slavery.

You're not listening.
The Republican Party did not exist then. The beneficiaries when the Constitution was written differ
significantly from those who've benefited since. Your ad hominem argument is not well thought out.
Tis better to argue why the EC should be replaced, & with what, than to demonize the opposing party.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

ad hominem

Criticizing the motive of political parties is not an ad hominem. The EC being a defunct tool created to support the institution of slavery is well documented. That IS a reason why the EC should be abandoned.

And the Democratic Republicans of Jefferson were fiscal conservatives pushing for state rights over federal mandates. Aside from social and religious issues the Republicans of yesteryear haven't changed.

 

[columbus]

Either @Sonofason is trolling us or else he has actually has a viewpoint that is utterly divorced from facts and reason. I truly hope it's the former.

Considering the number of people I know that believe about the same thing, but don't go much farther on the internet than Facebook drama/gossip, I am sure its the latter.

Then they expect me to believe that Jesus Rose from the dead because they are personally so convinced of that.
Tom

 

[tytlyf]

To bad the state department and the FBI investigation show otherwise.

The server was not illegal. The state dept and FBI concluded that. There was no wrong doing. There was no intent.
I think they found 3 emails out of 30,000+ that were marked confidential, but not classified. But even then, there was no wrong doing.

So I'm not sure where you're getting this "the server was illegal and she sent thousands of classified emails.

 

[tytlyf]

We just had what was supposed to be a democratic election. What are the liberals doing now? The election is over.

What are they doing? Democrats and Republicans are pissed that Trump won. Fake news ruled the election. Enough people fell for it and changed their vote.

 

[Revoltingest]

Criticizing the motive of political parties is not an ad hominem. The EC being a defunct tool created to support the institution of slavery is well documented. That IS a reason why the EC should be abandoned.

I get the impression that you're painting Republicans as pro-slavery.
To bring it up as you have, when it's irrelevant to pros & cons of the EC,
seems a diversion from the issue at hand.

And the Democratic Republicans of Jefferson were fiscal conservatives pushing for state rights over federal mandates. Aside from social and religious issues the Republicans of yesteryear haven't changed.

You're wrong in your judgement of Republicans.
They, like Democrats, have changed over the many decades.

 

[Lyndon]

republicans are pro economic slavery of the workers, there's no denying that!!

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I get the impression that you're painting Republicans as pro-slavery.
To bring it up as you have, when it's irrelevant to pros & cons of the EC,
seems a diversion from the issue at hand.

Democratic republicans of the time created the EC to protect the institution of slavery. That is a historical fact, whether it sounds pleasant or not. It is an example of fixing the system to protect power in one party because they didn't want to lose something they wanted. It has since ONLY benefited one party regardless of how its stances have changed over time, to give them an edge in deciding a tight race. It's a dishonest system that we don't need.

You're wrong in your judgement of Republicans.
They, like Democrats, have changed over the many decades.

Sure, and I haven't argued otherwise. That doesn't change the consistency of fiscal issues (Or the history of states rights over human rights but, you know.)

 

[Revoltingest]

Democratic republicans of the time created the EC to protect the institution of slavery.

How do you support this?

It has since ONLY benefited one party regardless of how its stances have changed over time, to give them an edge in deciding a tight race. It's a dishonest system that we don't need.

I agree that it works unfairly.
But it's not dishonest....there's no misrepresentation.
It was designed to induce states to join the republic,
& avoid a tyranny of the majority.

Sure, and I haven't argued otherwise. That doesn't change the consistency of fiscal issues (Or the history of states rights over human rights but, you know.)

States rights are also human rights.
I like the idea that the states are independent enuf to grant greater rights than would the fed.
Gay marriage worked this way...unless you believe that when the fed opposed this right, it
should've prevented the states from legalizing it. After Kelo v New London, many states
strengthened property rights in response to the fed's curbing them.

Some states are bad actors (IMO), but some are leaders in what we'd agree is progress.
It's messy. But I prefer distributed systems over centralized ones.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

How do you support this?

The Troubling Reason the Electoral College Exists

It was designed to induce states to join the republic,
& avoid a tyranny of the majority

It was designed to rally the Southern farmers away from larger towns to Jefferson to protect slavery.

Gay marriage worked this way...unless you believe that when the fed opposed this right, it
should've prevented the states from legalizing it.

If it weren't for the federal overturning of DOMA as unconstitutional, several states would likely still have it banned. In fact, the vast majority of civil rights battles in our nation's history was decided by federal court, not state votes.

Anyway this is one of the things we are probably going to have to agree to disagree, and it's going to get busy over here this week anyway. e-handshake?

 

[Revoltingest]

The Troubling Reason the Electoral College Exists

Interesting.
So is this the reason you oppose the EC....or is it because it's caused 4 Democratic losses?

The irony is that Democrats were rather pro-slavery, while Pubs were anti.
The EC would've benefited the former over the latter, perhaps up thru the
Dems' Jim Crow era.
But this history doesn't matter.....the EC is what it is.
It should live or die on its own merit.

If it weren't for the federal overturning of DOMA as unconstitutional, several states would likely still have it banned. In fact, the vast majority of civil rights battles in our nation's history was decided by federal court, not state votes.

I argue that it was the states leading the way.
Broad public acceptance & state legalization converted the opposition....Clintons, Obama, USSC, Congress.

Anyway this is one of the things we are probably going to have to agree to disagree, and it's going to get busy over here this week anyway. e-handshake?

Oops! Wrong GIF.

This one's better....

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Interesting.
So is this the reason you oppose the EC....or is it because it's caused 4 Democratic losses?

It's distressing that those candidates were blithering idiots which royally ****ed up the system during their stay, but they were the 'lesser evil'.
But no, that we still have a system that is completely useless and was created to extend slavery is pretty bad.

The irony is that Democrats were rather pro-slavery, while Pubs were anti.

Except, once again, they weren't. Federalists =! Republican. Democratic Republican = Republican.

the EC is what it is.
It should live or die on its own merit.

Yeah, history doesn't make any difference in considering law, ethics, et al.

I argue that it was the states leading the way.

Is that why gay marriage was legalized by state regulation only eight times? And only three by popular vote? The vast majority were overturned by court. More were overturned by the supreme court ruling than popular vote and state legislation combined.
It was even worse for interracial marriage.

Also lets not forget that those evil big governnent socialist Scandanavians beat us at pretty much every civil rights battle...

Anyway, any more tonight?

 

[Revoltingest]

It's distressing that those candidates were blithering idiots which royally ****ed up the system during their stay, but they were the 'lesser evil'.
But no, that we still have a system that is completely useless and was created to extend slavery is pretty bad.

Do you think slavery is currently being extended by the EC?
The Senate

Except, once again, they weren't. Federalists =! Republican. Democratic Republican = Republican.

This is to conflate 2 similarly spelled terms with different meanings.
While there were "republicans" then, the Republican Party (which later formed to oppose slavery) did
not yet exist. And again, the Democrats were the slavery party whom the EC would've benefitted.

I am a "republican" (lower case "r") because I favor a federation of states,
governed by a constitution with a bill of rights, & democratically elected leaders.
In that sense, even many Democrats are republicans.
Ref....
Republicanism in the United States - Wikipedia
Perhaps I might even convert you, eh?

Yeah, history doesn't make any difference in considering law, ethics, et al.

Is this agreement or sarcasm?
(I thought I saw eye rolling.)

Is that why gay marriage was legalized by state regulation only eight times? And only three by popular vote? The vast majority were overturned by court. More were overturned by the supreme court ruling than popular vote and state legislation combined.
It was even worse for interracial marriage.

Having the states lead is a messy process. But their autonomy allows for more freedom
to experiment. Tis in the nature of leading a change, that not all are in the front, but they
nonetheless made it possible for the fed to reverse course.
Note that faux progressives Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, & Barack Obama only "evolved"
to accept gay marriage after political winds shifted at the state level. But even then, they
had to wait for real progressives like Dick Cheney & state voters to lead them.

Had the federal government been allowed central control with no separate rights for states,
it could've imposed its gay marriage ban on everyone everywhere in the country. Thus, I
prefer a constitutional republic over a monolithic top down authority.

Also lets not forget that those evil big governnent socialist Scandanavians beat us at pretty much every civil rights battle...

Scandinavia (which is capitalist, not socialist) doesn't look so attractive to me.
It's a very expensive place to live, & they take a back seat to some of our civil liberties, eg, free speech.

Anyway, any more tonight?

It's late morning here.

If you oppose the EC because it gave small states & slave states more power,
then would this mean you oppose the Senate for the same reason?
(After all, it too was part of the Great Compromise which created the EC.)
We could get by with just the proportionally representative House,
& ditch the Senate (created by those evil white male slave holders).

 

[tytlyf]

Interesting.
So is this the reason you oppose the EC....or is it because it's caused 4 Democratic losses?

The EC is outdated and not equal. I've stated this already. Mostly because of why it was introduced to begin with.

The current system: 1 vote =/= 1 vote

You don't see why that's broken?

 

[Revoltingest]

The EC is outdated and not equal. I've stated this already. Mostly because of why it was introduced to begin with.

The current system: 1 vote =/= 1 vote

You don't see why that's broken?

Please pay attention to the discussion.
I don't like it, & I'm not arguing to keep it.

 

[Shad]

The server was not illegal. The state dept and FBI concluded that.

It was not their choice but that of the DoJ. More so Comey decided the above on his own over a year ago.

There was no wrong doing. There was no intent.

Sure there was. Intent to ignore the laws binding on her and her position.

I think they found 3 emails out of 30,000+ that were marked confidential, but not classified. But even then, there was no wrong doing.

More like 100 with classified files.

So I'm not sure where you're getting this "the server was illegal and she sent thousands of classified emails.

It was illegal and Comey bailed her out on his own.

 

[Shad]

They found nothing of any significance in the emails, and don't think I am about to take your word on anything.

No they just found classified files illegal put on a server. Nothing at all.