Trump to Withdraw from Iran Nuclear Deal

[YmirGF]

I could not agree more.

I'm not sure that saying "The deal was better than the previous situation." is actually accurate though. The deal simply created a pause button. It did nothing to stop their programs and dismantle their infrastructure. So, in a way, it was better, but hardly worthy of note. The deal was cemented to create a legacy for Obama to offset his lack of any kind of foreign policy wins over his entire 8 year tenure.

 

[metis]

Comments?

If I were to do so in the terms I'd use by impulse, I'd be kicked off of RF for maybe several centuries.

Back tomorrow as I simmer s-l-o-w-l-y down.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm not sure that saying "The deal was better than the previous situation." is actually accurate though. The deal simply created a pause button. It did nothing to stop their programs and dismantle their infrastructure.

It created checks and duties, including upper limits, verifications, and dismantling.

None of those will remain now.

So, in a way, it was better, but hardly worthy of note. The deal was cemented to create a legacy for Obama to offset his lack of any kind of foreign policy wins over his entire 8 year tenure.

Even if that were true (it isn't - and what would a "win" be anyway?), that would hardly justify letting go of the deal.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

What matters is money. We are all slaves to it in one way or another.

I will not disagree with you on that matter, but I don't think we couldn't be smart about it. Especially if we want to leave a better world for our decedents.

 

[tytlyf]

You would be quite wrong about that. I do just that and most are quite accepting. Go figure..

No, I'm right. You all sound the same, repeat same things. No original thought/opinion.

 

[YmirGF]

No, I'm right. You all sound the same, repeat same things. No original thought/opinion.

What planet are you living on again? Are you seriously suggesting I am lying about not being quite up front about being an atheist to conservatives? Are we really going there?

 

[YmirGF]

It created checks and duties, including upper limits, verifications, and dismantling.

None of those will remain now.


Even if that were true (it isn't - and what would a "win" be anyway?), that would hardly justify letting go of the deal.

Luis, the dismantling was pretty minimal. If anything it gave them time to consolidate. Plus, the inspection aspect has never been their strong suit.

 

[LuisDantas]

Luis, the dismantling was pretty minimal. If anything it gave them time to consolidate. Plus, the inspection aspect has never been their strong suit.

Sorry, I am not buying that narrative. It has no credibility whatsoever.

Also, what do you mean by "consolidation"?

 

[YmirGF]

Sorry, I am not buying that narrative. It has no credibility whatsoever.

Also, what do you mean by "consolidation"?

There wouldn't appear to be any point in discussing it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

On the campaign trail, Trump promised to be a sort of maverick nationalist who would put America first with foreign policy. It's clear that those claims are a bunch of bull****. He is following the same neocon and right-wing Zionist script that America has been on for the last few decades at least. Have to do the bidding of the Israelis and Saudis. He has not offered one thing different in this area. When will his brainwashed supporters realize they've been had. If he was truly different, he'd probably be dead or never reach the White House in the first place.

 

[Underhill]

Israeli intelligence is the the best in the region. I see no reason to doubt that Iran never lived up to their part of the "agreement". Trump just left something that died long ago.

Time to do it right.

So you take the word of Israel over the inspectors who had access to sites all over Iran and ignore the fact that the deal set them back by years at the very least.

Reminds me of the start of the Iraq war. Inspectors said no weapons but suspect intelligence proffered by the US, Britain and Israel led us to ignore the inspectors to our detriment.

 

[Underhill]

I'm not sure that saying "The deal was better than the previous situation." is actually accurate though. The deal simply created a pause button. It did nothing to stop their programs and dismantle their infrastructure. So, in a way, it was better, but hardly worthy of note. The deal was cemented to create a legacy for Obama to offset his lack of any kind of foreign policy wins over his entire 8 year tenure.

Have you actually looked at what the deal did? Because it did a lot to stop their programs and dismantle their nuclear infrastructure.

Dismantle 15,000 centrifuges. Gave up 97% of its stockpiled uranium. Those are pretty big concessions. And the most pertinent if the goal is to hinder their nuclear program. By comparison, the deal cost us... nothing. We let them have their money back and gain a minor trading partner.

 

[tytlyf]

Luis, the dismantling was pretty minimal. If anything it gave them time to consolidate. Plus, the inspection aspect has never been their strong suit.

As opposed to backing out of the deal and allowing them to work on a weapon immediately? Someone lied to you about the deal, it's details, it's overall impact, etc. The sad part is people are very disinformed when reaching the voting booth.

Here, learn more about the deal. And the Israeli intelligence report was already known for years. They gotcha!

Trump pulls US out of Iran deal: Here's what to know

 

[metis]

I have one word that covers what Trump has done: "insane".

It ramps up greater risks of war, plus if Iran were to return to being able to make nukes, then the Saudi's, and possibly some others in the region, may also decide to do the same.

But what's also terribly important is that it tells all, including our allies, that this administration cannot be trusted to apply any agreement that we may have signed or may sign in the future. Like with marriage, trust is important, and the only thing we can trust with Trump is that he simply cannot be trusted.

 

[metis]

It was a terrible deal from the get go and if the new/old information from Israel recently is accurate the Iranians were not honest to begin with and lied about the depth of their work to acquire nuclear weapons.

False, as even those in Trump's administration have admitted that Iran was complying.

Also, some former IDF and Mossad officers, including some former generals, signed a statement that pulling out of the agreement is not in the region's best interest, thus would increase the chances of war.

 

[metis]

There is room to renegotiate the deal.

Not really, and one reason alone is that any supposed future agreement would still be subject to Trump changing his mind again. Trump has made it abundantly clear that any agreement we have made or likely will make is not worth the paper it's printed on.

 

[metis]

The agreement was voided from the start. The recently released documents from Iran proves that Iran never lived up to its obligations from the start. I see no point to having an agreement in which the US was the only side carrying out its obligations. There is no agreement to withdraw from, there is just a recognition of reality.

Let me suggest you read this: Israeli experts defend the Iran nuclear deal - The Boston Globe

 

[Altfish]

Looks like the EU are staying in the deal.

Trump has only done this to help his oil industry buddies, watch th

 

[idav]

It was a terrible deal from the get go and if the new/old information from Israel recently is accurate the Iranians were not honest to begin with and lied about the depth of their work to acquire nuclear weapons. In effect, the Iranians voided the deal from day one due to their dishonesty with the other negotiating parties. I don't fault Obama too much, he just chose to believe their lies all the while fully expecting that they would not honor their part of the bargain. Deals don't get much worse than this one.

The deal involved a lot of not trusting them and allowing surveillance. I don’t see exactly what was wrong with the deal. Is the same not argument that we can’t cut a deal cause they will cheat? Why does that sound familiar?

 

[Mister Emu]

Comments?

The "deal" was horrible and didn't even provide the means to ensure that it was being followed. Inspections at sites beyond a single facility required notice and could be delayed after that notice for months, allowing any evidence to evaporate. Even if Iran follows the deal in spirit, at the end of the day they still get nukes and all the benefits of having sanctions removed for over a decade.

Much like the other major international agreement that Trump lead America into leaving, to the consternation of many, it was more about self-congratulatory back patting for the appearance of doing something than real solutions.