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Truth: either God exists or He don't.

Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Inquire of God said:
Of course. If what I say does not speak to you and you doubt it that is your reality. I respect that. I have done what I said in that last part of my statement and sought God's answer, I have received His answer. I know that He exists. I also know that this answer came to me and I cannot use it to prove anything to anyone who does not wish to believe what I say. And I think wise persons would do their own inquiry, it is a sure way to find out, if one wants to actually find out and obtain real proof. Proof from God is the ONLY real proof.
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No, you only believe that God exist. Belief is personal. Knowledge is demonstrable. If you can show that God exists then you can claim to know. Until you do that you only have mere belief. Your claim of knowing that God exists is no different from a Muslim's claim that they know that Allah exists or a Hindu's claim that they know that Brahma exists.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
Of course the problem with the Matthew 24 verse is that it is one of the worst failures of prophesy in the Bible. He was supposed to come back while some of the disciples were still alive. Either there are some really old Jews wandering the Earth or the prophesy failed.
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Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Yet, didn't the credulous sinful Christians got deceived by sinful Paul as he faked a vision as soon as he came to know that Jesus had migrated out from Judea out of the Roman Empire lest Jesus is caught again and killed?
Right friend, please?

Regards
 
ElishaElijah

ElishaElijah

Return
Subduction Zone said:
Keeping things simple often leads to errors as your post did. Why do you refuse to ask your questions properly? Why did you dodge my question that showed the error that you made?

Dodging such question indicates that the person saw the error but refuses to address it.
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What error? I do make them but which one you talking about? Do you make errors?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Yet, didn't the credulous sinful Christians got deceived by sinful Paul as he faked a vision as soon as he came to know that Jesus had migrated out from Judea out of the Roman Empire lest Jesus is caught again and killed?
Right friend, please?

Regards
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Jesus probably was crucified. I am not a denier of his existence. You would need to find valid evidence that he migrated to make that claim. The problem was the he was almost certainly treated as Romans treated other victims of crucifixion. The bodies were left up for nature to dispose of as an object lesson to others under their rule.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
ElishaElijah said:
What error? I do make them but which one you talking about? Do you make errors?
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Of course I make errors. And your error was explained to you. Your question made no sense.

So why did you dodge the question that showed that you were wrong? It was asked in the same sense that you asked yours of me. If you can't answer my version of your poorly asked question then there is no need for me to answer your question.

Or, and this is just a wild thought, you could try to ask your question properly. Then we could move on.
 
Polymath257

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Inquire of God said:
Of course. If what I say does not speak to you and you doubt it that is your reality. I respect that. I have done what I said in that last part of my statement and sought God's answer, I have received His answer. I know that He exists. I also know that this answer came to me and I cannot use it to prove anything to anyone who does not wish to believe what I say. And I think wise persons would do their own inquiry, it is a sure way to find out, if one wants to actually find out and obtain real proof. Proof from God is the ONLY real proof.
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I try to make a distinction between matters of opinion and matters of fact. Reality is a question of fact, not of opinion.

For example, I think that tomatoes are nasty little fruits. That is my opinion. That is NOT reality.

But I also allow that you might find tomatoes delightful and refreshing. many people do. That is why my view is an *opinion* and not a fact. It matters to me when I go out with people who want to eat bruschetta, but it is NOT reality.

On the other side, we can ALL see the sun. We know it is there. it is not simply my opinion that it is there: it is a fact.

More complicated: I know electrons exist. I know this because of a host of experiments and observations that have been done and can be repeated to give the same results. We have technology based on them existing and we can measure their properties in a number of ways.Their existence is a fact.

On the other hand, I *believe* it is very likely that life exists in other places in the universe. I do NOT know this, but it is something that, given what I have learned, seems likely. I have an *opinion* about this. It is NOT knowledge.

You had some experiences that you attribute to a deity. I am not going to deny those experiences. I *am* going to question the validity of your interpretation of those experiences. You say you *know* they are from God. But *how* do you know they are from God? I claim there is no way to know that. In fact, given that they are not public and repeatable, the interpretation is NOT fact, it is *opinion*. It is like my dislike of tomatoes: important for the person with the opinion, but NOT an aspect of reality.

At least, that's how I see it.

PS: I have also done my investigations, including the *one* method claimed in the Bible to be a sure-fire way to find God. I found nothing except me talking to myself.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
God's existence is not evident either.
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That doesn't mean that He does not exist. It only means that one is not treading on the right path, it is one's fault not of Him. Right friend, please?
One cannot reach Him through the terminology of the Scientific Method as it is not devised for it. Right friend, please?
Regards
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Polymath257 said:
For example, I think that tomatoes are nasty little fruits.
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Heresy! You will never be Touched By HIs Noodly Appendages with that attitude.

Seriously I do have a love affair with the tomato. And I have known others that like you cannot stand them. Their bodies are still missing:smilingimp::tomato:
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
That doesn't mean that He does not exist. It only means that one is not treading on the right path, it is one's fault not of Him. Right friend, please?
One cannot reach Him through the terminology of the Scientific Method as it is not devised for it. Right friend, please?
Regards
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I never claimed that God does not exist. No one seems to be able to find a reliable path to God. That does not bode well for his existence. If God is hiding from people then the fault appears to be with God.
 
Pilgrim Soldier

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
Israel Khan said:
Some guys who wrote a couple of books claimed that Jesus said "I am the Truth". And just because he says so, there is no reason for me to believe him. And I have no idea whether Jesus lied or not, but since he was human it is most likely that he did on occasion.

I know about a guy who said that he was the only one that the angel Moroni spoke to. Does that make what he said legit?

Will you claim that any statement is true as long as the person saying it was the only person to ever say it?
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Jesus said, "they do not receive the truth, because there is no truth in them. They are the children of the Devil, He was a liar from the beginning".
So according to Jesus, anyone who doesn't believe in Him is a child of the Devil, so they are unable to receive the truth because they were born blind to the truth. The Devil blinds His children to the truth so they can not receive it.

Jesus said, those who don't have the truth are actually prisoners of the Devil, He keeps them in darkness and deception and only Jesus can liberate them and illuminate them with the truth. None of them can ever escape that bondage, unless He rescues them from it.
 
ElishaElijah

ElishaElijah

Return
Subduction Zone said:
Of course I make errors. And your error was explained to you. Your question made no sense.

So why did you dodge the question that showed that you were wrong? It was asked in the same sense that you asked yours of me. If you can't answer my version of your poorly asked question then there is no need for me to answer your question.

Or, and this is just a wild thought, you could try to ask your question properly. Then we could move on.
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No thanks, we don’t talk the same language so maybe someone else would be better
 
Pilgrim Soldier

Pilgrim Soldier

Active Member
Trailblazer said:
I do not have to twist the scriptures, all I have to do is read them.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

It is the Christians who have to twist the scriptures in order to believe Jesus is coming back, but changing them PLAIN meaning will not get Jesus to come back.
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There's no plain meaning in scripture. the scriptures are a spiritual message, so they can only be discerned by those who are ind welled by the Holy Spirit. The rest are bound to get them wrong and they are a curse to them.

So it wrong to suggest the there's anything plain about scripture, the opposite it true. They are impossible to understand by those who don't have the Holy Spirit indwelling them.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Pilgrim Soldier said:
There's no plain meaning in scripture. the scriptures are a spiritual message, so they can only be discerned by those who are ind welled by the Holy Spirit. The rest are bound to get them wrong and they are a curse to them.

So it wrong to suggest the there's anything plain about scripture, the opposite it true. They are impossible to understand by those who don't have the Holy Spirit indwelling them.
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This is a typical nonsense claim. But assuming that your claim is true how do you properly test your beliefs to see if you do understand the scriptures? Simply claiming that you do is no more valid than someone that disagrees with you claiming that he understands the scriptures and that you do not because the Holy Spirit is not indwelling in you.

How do you reliably test your beliefs? You cannot rely on tests that only satisfy you because your opponent is doing the same. That is why your tests to date have not been reliable. They only convince you and no one else. That is mere confirmation bias and not testing.
 
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