Try to prove to me your religion.

[Rainbow Mage]

I believe that is the case now but not originally. I believe there were two separate groups in the beginning Unitarians and Universalists and that they joined into one body at some point in history but I would have to look it up to be sure. So I was referring to Unitarians not Universalists although I believe Universalists also departed form the Congregatinal Church.

I looked it up in Wikipedia -

• Unitarianism, (1565–present) a liberal Christian theological movement known for its belief in the unitary nature of God, and for its rejection of the doctrines of the Trinity, original sin, predestination, and of biblical inerrancy.

Yes there are still Unitarian Christians, but they are not necessarily associated with Unitarian Universalism, which is now proper its own religion. It calls itself both a liberal and ecumenical religion. There may be Unitarian Christians in UU, but their belief is solely their own. The doctrine of Unitarianism isn't a dogma of UU. The only agreed on 'dogma' of UU is the founding principles.

 

[JustWondering]

I believe it is not the same. A creation shows a design but the intelligence of God can sometimes seem random.

It is simple logic. You can't say sentient life needs a creator to exist hence "god did it!" and then immediately say that god which is a sentient form of life doesn't need a creator to exist. This argument suggests that complex life can just exist, so why complicate things by adding on to it?

 

[JustWondering]

I believe I was not giving evidence of whether a religion is true but evidence that God is real.

Don't you mean you were TRYING to give evidence for YOUR god?

I believe the evidence points to the contrary. I don't believe anyone's brain is capable of predicting a surprising future. Sure one can get lucky and predict who will win the world series but that isn't so surprising because someone will win one.

What evidence?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Humans do not inflict natural disasters on themselves. Humans did not invent disease. Also, free will is never mentioned in the bible, in fact god hardened pharoh's heart so he would not release the slaves (he straight up mind controlled pharoh to be a jerk). The bible emphasizes obedience basically above all else. So I don't buy your free will argument, that's nonsense.

We have no good things on this Earth? There is almost a limitless variety of food. Beautiful sights to enjoy. Interesting things to do.

Yes, there are natural disasters at times, and disease. But when Adam chose independence from God, not only did he lose everlasting life, for us too, as his offspring....he lost God's protection. Notice Isaiah 11:9....this tells us what was lost; it's not happening now, but when it does, peace will prevail everywhere! Again! (Revelation 21:3-4) This is only possible through Christ's sacrifice, the one "sent by God (John 17:3)"! Yes, Jehovah allowed His Son to sacrifice his perfect life, giving Adam's descendants a chance to get for ourselves what Adam lost -- living forever in perfection, on an Earth made into a Paradise!

If someone goes through a natural disaster, or say they experience a long-term disease....if it gets too bad, they die. And that is sad. But keep in mind, death is sleep (John 11:11-13; compare Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 146:3-4; Acts of the Apostles 7:60. -- All different from what Christendom teaches, eh?). "RIP" is put on tombstones....that's exactly what it is. Or say someone was a slave their entire life, being mistreated: it only lasted 70-80 years (the average life span); maybe, under hardship, less. (It may sound like a long time, but really, a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things). Then they die, and they are "RIP"ing, until the Resurrection (John 5:28-29; Acts of the Apostles 24:15), again made possible by Jehovah God, through Christ! After the Resurrection, the chance will be given them (which might include us, whether righteous or unrighteous!), the opportunity to obey our Creator and live forever!


Regarding free will, you use one example, of Pharaoh? After him seeing 10 miracles (20, actually), and still hard-hearted? He simply showed his inclination, to not change his attitude.

There are many passages throughout the Scriptures saying God was "hurt", "felt regret", that He was "pained" by men's actions. If no free will....what is He, a sado-masochist?
How could God say, he "desires all to be repentant (2 Peter 3:9)".... but then make some unrepentant? Because some are!

Yes, the evidence verifies there is free will, for all sentient creatures!

 

[JustWondering]

We have no good things on this Earth? There is almost a limitless variety of food. Beautiful sights to enjoy. Interesting things to do.

Yes, there are natural disasters at times, and disease. But when Adam chose independence from God, not only did he lose everlasting life, for us too, as his offspring....he lost God's protection. Notice Isaiah 11:9....this tells us what was lost; it's not happening now, but when it does, peace will prevail everywhere! Again! (Revelation 21:3-4) This is only possible through Christ's sacrifice, the one "sent by God (John 17:3)"! Yes, Jehovah allowed His Son to sacrifice his perfect life, giving Adam's descendants a chance to get for ourselves what Adam lost -- living forever in perfection, on an Earth made into a Paradise!

If someone goes through a natural disaster, or say they experience a long-term disease....if it gets too bad, they die. And that is sad. But keep in mind, death is sleep (John 11:11-13; compare Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 146:3-4; Acts of the Apostles 7:60. -- All different from what Christendom teaches, eh?). "RIP" is put on tombstones....that's exactly what it is. Or say someone was a slave their entire life, being mistreated: it only lasted 70-80 years (the average life span); maybe, under hardship, less. (It may sound like a long time, but really, a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things). Then they die, and they are "RIP"ing, until the Resurrection (John 5:28-29; Acts of the Apostles 24:15), again made possible by Jehovah God, through Christ! After the Resurrection, the chance will be given them (which might include us, whether righteous or unrighteous!), the opportunity to obey our Creator and live forever!


Regarding free will, you use one example, of Pharaoh? After him seeing 10 miracles (20, actually), and still hard-hearted? He simply showed his inclination, to not change his attitude.

There are many passages throughout the Scriptures saying God was "hurt", "felt regret", that He was "pained" by men's actions. If no free will....what is He, a sado-masochist?
How could God say, he "desires all to be repentant (2 Peter 3:9)".... but then make some unrepentant? Because some are!

Yes, the evidence verifies there is free will, for all sentient creatures!

Death is death. Until anyone can provide ANY evidence to the contrary, your religion and its claims are just fantasies. How our brains are capable of using reason, being creative and feeling emotions is super complex but not mystical and reliant on some supernatural cause. I understand the appeal to believing that there is some super being watching over us and will make us immortal someday and let us live in some super amazing perfect world rent free but I am a realist. I live in a place called reality that doesn't have gods and supernatural beings running around defying the laws of physics. Each to their own I guess.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Please try to prove to me your religion is true.

This would be extremely hard to do, based on beliefs alone.

But let me ask you this: If there is a Creator, then the things He made that are required for His creation to survive -- from water to drink, to foods to eat, to the nitrogen cycle and water cycle, etc. -- would be adequate, right? is what we have, on this Earth, just "adequate"? Take food, for instance. Do we have just one kind of food, to meet our nutritional needs?
By no means! We have so much variety of food on this Earth, plus things even beyond what's just 'necessary' for living! The beautiful places to see, interesting activities to enjoy, and the sentient ability to appreciate these things, and to give and receive love! You can't help but come to the conclusion that, although God is not too involved in human affairs at this moment, He wanted us to enjoy life! He loves us, if we do what is right!!

And there's the "rub", as some say. A religion that is truly imitating the Creator, will be doing what is right in His eyes, loving all people, no matter what their nationality, race or culture is!!! A religion approved by God, has no borders! How these barriers affect the treatment of others, is all man-made.

Although what a religion teaches its members is important, how its members -- and leaders -- act and treat others, is the ID of a true religion! Jesus said as much about Christianity, @ John 13:34-35. He also said to "love your enemies" (Matthew 5:44)
The religion I now belong to, strives hard and, with Jehovah's spirit, succeeds at doing this. At times, we incur the wrath of different countries, especially in times of war. But we survive, and are blessed. We are Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

This would be extremely hard to do, based on beliefs alone.

But let me ask you this: If there is a Creator, then the things He made that are required for His creation to survive -- from water to drink, to foods to eat, to the nitrogen cycle and water cycle, etc. -- would be adequate, right? is what we have, on this Earth, just "adequate"? Take food, for instance. Do we have just one kind of food, to meet our nutritional needs?
By no means! We have so much variety of food on this Earth, plus things even beyond what's just 'necessary' for living! The beautiful places to see, interesting activities to enjoy, and the sentient ability to appreciate these things, and to give and receive love! You can't help but come to the conclusion that, although God is not too involved in human affairs at this moment, He wanted us to enjoy life! He loves us, if we do what is right!!

And there's the "rub", as some say. A religion that is truly imitating the Creator, will be doing what is right in His eyes, loving all people, no matter what their nationality, race or culture is!!! A religion approved by God, has no borders! How these barriers affect the treatment of others, is all man-made.

Although what a religion teaches its members is important, how its members -- and leaders -- act and treat others, is the ID of a true religion! Jesus said as much about Christianity, @ John 13:34-35. He also said to "love your enemies" (Matthew 5:44)
The religion I now belong to, strives hard and, with Jehovah's spirit, succeeds at doing this. At times, we incur the wrath of different countries, especially in times of war. But we survive, and are blessed. We are Jehovah's Witnesses.

I am inactive and probably never will be active again after this, but just know your god once ordered Jews to kill people solely because of them being gentiles, that is not loving.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

We have no good things on this Earth? There is almost a limitless variety of food. Beautiful sights to enjoy. Interesting things to do.

Yes, there are natural disasters at times, and disease. But when Adam chose independence from God, not only did he lose everlasting life, for us too, as his offspring....he lost God's protection. Notice Isaiah 11:9....this tells us what was lost; it's not happening now, but when it does, peace will prevail everywhere! Again! (Revelation 21:3-4) This is only possible through Christ's sacrifice, the one "sent by God (John 17:3)"! Yes, Jehovah allowed His Son to sacrifice his perfect life, giving Adam's descendants a chance to get for ourselves what Adam lost -- living forever in perfection, on an Earth made into a Paradise!

If someone goes through a natural disaster, or say they experience a long-term disease....if it gets too bad, they die. And that is sad. But keep in mind, death is sleep (John 11:11-13; compare Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 146:3-4; Acts of the Apostles 7:60. -- All different from what Christendom teaches, eh?). "RIP" is put on tombstones....that's exactly what it is. Or say someone was a slave their entire life, being mistreated: it only lasted 70-80 years (the average life span); maybe, under hardship, less. (It may sound like a long time, but really, a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things). Then they die, and they are "RIP"ing, until the Resurrection (John 5:28-29; Acts of the Apostles 24:15), again made possible by Jehovah God, through Christ! After the Resurrection, the chance will be given them (which might include us, whether righteous or unrighteous!), the opportunity to obey our Creator and live forever!


Regarding free will, you use one example, of Pharaoh? After him seeing 10 miracles (20, actually), and still hard-hearted? He simply showed his inclination, to not change his attitude.

There are many passages throughout the Scriptures saying God was "hurt", "felt regret", that He was "pained" by men's actions. If no free will....what is He, a sado-masochist?
How could God say, he "desires all to be repentant (2 Peter 3:9)".... but then make some unrepentant? Because some are!

Yes, the evidence verifies there is free will, for all sentient creatures!

If there is free-will then revelations cannot be true because humans, demons, and angels could purposely change it from happening if they had free-will.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Death is death. Until anyone can provide ANY evidence to the contrary, your religion and its claims are just fantasies. How our brains are capable of using reason, being creative and feeling emotions is super complex but not mystical and reliant on some supernatural cause. I understand the appeal to believing that there is some super being watching over us and will make us immortal someday and let us live in some super amazing perfect world rent free but I am a realist. I live in a place called reality that doesn't have gods and supernatural beings running around defying the laws of physics. Each to their own I guess.

Good job debunking people's illogical claims on this thread.

If I had a title to hand down it would be yours, well I guess you could take the "Advocate for Reason" title if you want.

Just be careful because if you debate to hard against people the mods do not seem to take kindly.

 

[gnostic]

Thief does not have a religion.

He does have a religion, even if he don't belong to any church.

And he is dogmatic and very conservative, so he is not a rogue anything.

 

[Jabar]

Islam is the true religion. Here is following proof:

At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur’an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.

The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.

Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur’an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about .0017%.

 

[Jabar]

The Quran also explains the big bang theory which was discovered in 1894, The quran was revealed 1400 years ago meaning that the existence of God is true and the Islam is the truth.

 

[Jabar]

Why the Bible is false:
"Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing, that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth; (including) the locust . . . the beetle . . . and the grasshopper after his kind" (Leviticus 11:21,22).

 

[Jabar]

Insects do not have 4 legs, they have 6.

 

[JustWondering]

Why the Bible is false:
"Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing, that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth; (including) the locust . . . the beetle . . . and the grasshopper after his kind" (Leviticus 11:21,22).

Why the Quran is false:

Quran Surah 18:86. Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

The Sun does not set in a spring, it's in space and the earth revolves around it.

 

[Jabar]

You are brainwashed. When it says the sun is setting it is referring to the time. It is saying he reached at the time of sunset. Also, the sun does not scientifically rise and set. It is the rotation of the earth that gives the rising and setting of the sun. You are too used to your everyday newspapers and media that the sun rises at a particular time though it is not scientifically proven because the sun does not rise and set, it is the earths rotation that allows it to.

 

[Jabar]

@JustWondering So therefore, there still is no false statement.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

You are brainwashed. When it says the sun is setting it is referring to the time. It is saying he reached at the time of sunset. Also, the sun does not scientifically rise and set. It is the rotation of the earth that gives the rising and setting of the sun. You are too used to your everyday newspapers and media that the sun rises at a particular time though it is not scientifically proven because the sun does not rise and set, it is the earths rotation that allows it to.

How do we, or in fact YOU know that YOU are not brainwashed?

If the Koran has false claims it is not divinely inspired.

 

[firedragon]

Don't be an armchair skeptic and do your own research. That's how you will acquire knowledge see where the evidence leads.

Armchair Skeptic. I like that.

 

[Jabar]

The Quran has no false claims, it is what the people think it as. It is a misconception throughout society. The Quran still remains with no error. @Taylor Seraphim