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Try to prove to me your religion.

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
@JustWondering He is not creating you to be skeptic. The message is being brought to you. You make misconceptons and do not read the Quran. It is not God making you skeptic, it is yourself that is making you skeptic. You do not realize this however, you are arrogant.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Lol.

It's always the fault of the recipient of the message if they aren't convinced by it. It's never the fault of those imparting said message to convince people; nor is the onus on the message itself to be convincing.

Said no rational person, ever.
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
@A Greased Scotsman Exactly. However i have an objection. You say it is the always the fault of the recipient of the message if they are not convinced by it. Because it is, it is obvious that he is being arrogant. If he was not then he would have gave the straight forward answer. Yes that would be admitting that there is a creator however i am sure he still has objections in other things as well. Also take into consideration that he holds his religion as absolute without any evidential information and continues to be bias. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but giving no evidence whatsoever and making misconceptions which makes him make a false judgement, i believe gives proof that his beliefs are not showing any evidence behind them.
 
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@JustWondering He is not creating you to be skeptic. The message is being brought to you. You make misconceptons and do not read the Quran. It is not God making you skeptic, it is yourself that is making you skeptic. You do not realize this however, you are arrogant.

I'm arrogant for not sharing your beliefs?

I have purchased and read parts of the Quran. I wasn't impressed.

By YOUR beliefs I WAS made to be a skeptic. If your "evidence" and arguments are not convincing how is that my fault? Just because you bought into your religion (for whatever reason) doesn't mean EVERYONE else sees things the way you do. We all grew up in different environments with different experiences that lead us to different beliefs. I had no more choice being born and raised in a society that was overwhelmingly Christian than someone who was born and raised in a society that was overwhelmingly Hindu. If your god existed and was really worried about his message getting out he could easily do something about that. Where is he?
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
@JustWondering No, you are arrogant because you hold your intellect and beliefs above then what they actually are and exaggerate them. I never intended to make you see things the way i do, i am just merely giving a message. You blame God for yourself being skeptic but once again you, yourself is making you skeptical. Yes you grew up in different environments and different experiences but the one thing that is important is that you still have acquired the message and chose to reject it. Not that i care, i am merely doing my job by giving a message. Allah S.W.A.T is All-Knowing. He is not worried about his message getting out, because there are many people that realize his message. Statistically, Islam being the fastest growing religion and is shown to outstrip Christianity. Not that it matters but you say Allah is worried about his message, but he is not because people around the world acquired it. Allah knows everything you do. He was challenged by Satan, who was a fool who will eventually go to hell just as the disbelievers will. So, to say he is worried is blasphemy. The time will come when the disbelievers will receive their punishment and the believers will receive their reward.


Peace :)
 
@JustWondering No, you are arrogant because you hold your intellect and beliefs above then what they actually are and exaggerate them. I never intended to make you see things the way i do, i am just merely giving a message. You blame God for yourself being skeptic but once again you, yourself is making you skeptical. Yes you grew up in different environments and different experiences but the one thing that is important is that you still have acquired the message and chose to reject it. Not that i care, i am merely doing my job by giving a message. Allah S.W.A.T is All-Knowing. He is not worried about his message getting out, because there are many people that realize his message. Statistically, Islam being the fastest growing religion and is shown to outstrip Christianity. Not that it matters but you say Allah is worried about his message, but he is not because people around the world acquired it. Allah knows everything you do. He was challenged by Satan, who was a fool who will eventually go to hell just as the disbelievers will. So, to say he is worried is blasphemy. The time will come when the disbelievers will receive their punishment and the believers will receive their reward.


Peace :)

I love how you preach about people being tortured as punishment for not believing an ancient religion that has no evidence to support it as something just and good, then signing off with "peace" and a happy face. That kind of empathic/logical disconnect is why I believe your religion is nothing more than a sham created by your "prophet" to acquire wealth and power for himself. The god portrayed in your Quran is a sadistic, bloodthirsty, dictator, that is at the same time supposed to be the "most merciful". How does eternal torture equal most merciful? Answer: it doesn't, because its nonsense.
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
@JustWondering Has no evidence to support it? Did you even comprehend what i say. It is because of the sinners and people who disbelieve. It could have never been to acquire wealth and power for himself, it has evidence it is divine and Islam was there when man was first created. It is most merciful he is giving you all this time you can use to find the truth. Go out and find it work hard and you will see that Islam is the truth. I am sorry but did you just insult Allah. Okay, Allah has created you with a free will and giving you all this time to find the truth. Eternal torture is for those that acquire info and still reject and insult in the same manner as you are doing. Not that alone there could be many things you can be doing. So, come on stop blaming God. He is most merciful, All-Mighty. It is the people who are bloodthirsty, dictators, and that create the problems. Allah has prescribed for those the true path and if you follow it, you will make it to the gates of Jannah.
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
@JustWondering You call this no evidence? Come on you are getting the information however you, yourself rejects it and calls it this and that when this is obvious evidence:

This is how the Quran has described mountains. God has said in the Quran:

aqwas-ys.jpg
Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs?
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 78:6-7)

Modern earth sciences have proven that mountains have deep roots under the surface of the ground (see figure 9) and that these roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground.2 So the most suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word ‘peg,’ since most of a properly set peg is hidden under the surface of the ground. The history of science tells us that the theory of mountains having deep roots was introduced only in the latter half of the nineteenth century.3

Mountains also play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth.4 They hinder the shaking of the earth. God has said in the Quran:

aqwas-ys.jpg
And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you...
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 16:15)

Likewise, the modern theory of plate tectonics holds that mountains work as stabilizers for the earth. This knowledge about the role of mountains as stabilizers for the earth has just begun to be understood in the framework of plate tectonics since the late 1960’s.5
The illuminating stars we see at night were, just as was the whole universe, in that ‘smoke’ material. God has said in the Quran:

aqwas-ys.jpg
Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke...
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 41:11)

Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, the moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same ‘smoke,’ we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity. Then out of this homogeneous ‘smoke,’ they formed and separated from each other. God has said in the Quran:

aqwas-ys.jpg
Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?...
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 21:30)

Dr. Alfred Kroner is one of the world’s renown
Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides in these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier.

The Holy Quran mentioned that there is a barrier between two seas that meet and that they do not transgress. God has said:

aqwas-ys.jpg
He has set free the two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress.
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 55:19-20)

But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of “a forbidding partition” with the barrier. God has said in the Quran:

aqwas-ys.jpg
He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition.
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 25:53)

One may ask, why did the Quran mention the partition when speaking about the divider between fresh and salt water, but did not mention it when speaking about the divider between the two seas?

Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from what is found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a “pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers.”3 This partition (zone of separation) has a different salinity from the fresh water and from the salt water4 (see figure 14).



Figure 14: Longitudinal section showing salinity (parts per thousand ‰) in an estuary. We can see here the partition (zone of separation) between the fresh and the salt water. (Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, p. 301, with a slight enhancement.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)

This information has been discovered only recently, using advanced equipment to measure temperature, salinity, density, oxygen dissolubility, etc. The human eye cannot see the difference between the two seas that meet, rather the two seas appear to us as one homogeneous sea. Likewise, the human eye cannot see the division of water in estuaries into the three kinds: fresh water, salt water, and the partition (zone of separation).
ed geologists. He is Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany. He said: “Thinking where Muhammad came from . . . I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years, with very complicated and advanced technological methods, that this is the case.”2 (To view the RealPlayer video of this comment click here ). Also he said: “Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin


Note: There is much more evidence i can provide.
 
@JustWondering Has no evidence to support it? Did you even comprehend what i say. It is because of the sinners and people who disbelieve. It could have never been to acquire wealth and power for himself, it has evidence it is divine and Islam was there when man was first created. It is most merciful he is giving you all this time you can use to find the truth. Go out and find it work hard and you will see that Islam is the truth. I am sorry but did you just insult Allah. Okay, Allah has created you with a free will and giving you all this time to find the truth. Eternal torture is for those that acquire info and still reject and insult in the same manner as you are doing. Not that alone there could be many things you can be doing. So, come on stop blaming God. He is most merciful, All-Mighty. It is the people who are bloodthirsty, dictators, and that create the problems. Allah has prescribed for those the true path and if you follow it, you will make it to the gates of Jannah.

Once again, someone who would torture others is NOT "all-Merciful". Saying you are merciful is a lie if you are going to torture people, for all eternity no less. Only a dictator would resort to threats to coerce people into doing what they want them to do. Only someone who is bloodthirsty would even consider using torture. I find it humorously ironic that you accuse others of the same EXACT transgressions that your god is guilty of but hypocritically judges others for. The Abrahamic god concepts are dangerous because they end up brain washing people into accepting twisted, hateful, if not violent world views. Especially when it is plain to people who have not been brainwashed with dogmatic religious nonsense that it is all just made up stories. There is no hell, or heaven.
 
@JustWondering You call this no evidence? Come on you are getting the information however you, yourself rejects it and calls it this and that when this is obvious evidence:

This is how the Quran has described mountains. God has said in the Quran:

aqwas-ys.jpg
Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs?
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 78:6-7)

Modern earth sciences have proven that mountains have deep roots under the surface of the ground (see figure 9) and that these roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground.2 So the most suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word ‘peg,’ since most of a properly set peg is hidden under the surface of the ground. The history of science tells us that the theory of mountains having deep roots was introduced only in the latter half of the nineteenth century.3

Mountains also play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth.4 They hinder the shaking of the earth. God has said in the Quran:

aqwas-ys.jpg
And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you...
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 16:15)

Likewise, the modern theory of plate tectonics holds that mountains work as stabilizers for the earth. This knowledge about the role of mountains as stabilizers for the earth has just begun to be understood in the framework of plate tectonics since the late 1960’s.5
The illuminating stars we see at night were, just as was the whole universe, in that ‘smoke’ material. God has said in the Quran:

aqwas-ys.jpg
Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke...
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 41:11)

Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, the moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same ‘smoke,’ we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity. Then out of this homogeneous ‘smoke,’ they formed and separated from each other. God has said in the Quran:

aqwas-ys.jpg
Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?...
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 21:30)

Dr. Alfred Kroner is one of the world’s renown
Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides in these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier.

The Holy Quran mentioned that there is a barrier between two seas that meet and that they do not transgress. God has said:

aqwas-ys.jpg
He has set free the two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress.
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 55:19-20)

But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of “a forbidding partition” with the barrier. God has said in the Quran:

aqwas-ys.jpg
He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition.
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 25:53)

One may ask, why did the Quran mention the partition when speaking about the divider between fresh and salt water, but did not mention it when speaking about the divider between the two seas?

Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from what is found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a “pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers.”3 This partition (zone of separation) has a different salinity from the fresh water and from the salt water4 (see figure 14).



Figure 14: Longitudinal section showing salinity (parts per thousand ‰) in an estuary. We can see here the partition (zone of separation) between the fresh and the salt water. (Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, p. 301, with a slight enhancement.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)

This information has been discovered only recently, using advanced equipment to measure temperature, salinity, density, oxygen dissolubility, etc. The human eye cannot see the difference between the two seas that meet, rather the two seas appear to us as one homogeneous sea. Likewise, the human eye cannot see the division of water in estuaries into the three kinds: fresh water, salt water, and the partition (zone of separation).
ed geologists. He is Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany. He said: “Thinking where Muhammad came from . . . I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years, with very complicated and advanced technological methods, that this is the case.”2 (To view the RealPlayer video of this comment click here ). Also he said: “Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin


Note: There is much more evidence i can provide.

Your "evidence" has been debunked, repeatedly, long ago. Besides, your quran that is supposedly divine and direct from god says that semen comes from between a man's spine and ribs. How would the creator of the universe not know simple human biology?
 

Tomorrows_Child

Active Member
Lol.

It's always the fault of the recipient of the message if they aren't convinced by it. It's never the fault of those imparting said message to convince people; nor is the onus on the message itself to be convincing.

Said no rational person, ever.

The message can be as convincing as anything on this planet but your own intellect and ego must accept it. If it is not willing to do so, it is no ones fault but yours. When God has provided you with an entire book of evidences, what more do you want him to do? No teacher or parent can force their child to do the homework all the time, there has to be some personal will involved too.
 

Tomorrows_Child

Active Member
Your "evidence" has been debunked, repeatedly, long ago. Besides, your quran that is supposedly divine and direct from god says that semen comes from between a man's spine and ribs. How would the creator of the universe not know simple human biology?

Where does it say that? It clearly states "loins", not spine.
 

Tomorrows_Child

Active Member
@JustWondering You call this no evidence? Come on you are getting the information however you, yourself rejects it and calls it this and that when this is obvious evidence:

This is how the Quran has described mountains. God has said in the Quran:

aqwas-ys.jpg
Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs?
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 78:6-7)

Modern earth sciences have proven that mountains have deep roots under the surface of the ground (see figure 9) and that these roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground.2 So the most suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word ‘peg,’ since most of a properly set peg is hidden under the surface of the ground. The history of science tells us that the theory of mountains having deep roots was introduced only in the latter half of the nineteenth century.3

Mountains also play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth.4 They hinder the shaking of the earth. God has said in the Quran:

aqwas-ys.jpg
And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you...
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 16:15)

Likewise, the modern theory of plate tectonics holds that mountains work as stabilizers for the earth. This knowledge about the role of mountains as stabilizers for the earth has just begun to be understood in the framework of plate tectonics since the late 1960’s.5
The illuminating stars we see at night were, just as was the whole universe, in that ‘smoke’ material. God has said in the Quran:

aqwas-ys.jpg
Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke...
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 41:11)

Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, the moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same ‘smoke,’ we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity. Then out of this homogeneous ‘smoke,’ they formed and separated from each other. God has said in the Quran:

aqwas-ys.jpg
Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?...
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 21:30)

Dr. Alfred Kroner is one of the world’s renown
Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides in these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier.

The Holy Quran mentioned that there is a barrier between two seas that meet and that they do not transgress. God has said:

aqwas-ys.jpg
He has set free the two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress.
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 55:19-20)

But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of “a forbidding partition” with the barrier. God has said in the Quran:

aqwas-ys.jpg
He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition.
aqwas-ym.jpg
(Quran, 25:53)

One may ask, why did the Quran mention the partition when speaking about the divider between fresh and salt water, but did not mention it when speaking about the divider between the two seas?

Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from what is found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a “pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers.”3 This partition (zone of separation) has a different salinity from the fresh water and from the salt water4 (see figure 14).



Figure 14: Longitudinal section showing salinity (parts per thousand ‰) in an estuary. We can see here the partition (zone of separation) between the fresh and the salt water. (Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, p. 301, with a slight enhancement.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)

This information has been discovered only recently, using advanced equipment to measure temperature, salinity, density, oxygen dissolubility, etc. The human eye cannot see the difference between the two seas that meet, rather the two seas appear to us as one homogeneous sea. Likewise, the human eye cannot see the division of water in estuaries into the three kinds: fresh water, salt water, and the partition (zone of separation).
ed geologists. He is Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany. He said: “Thinking where Muhammad came from . . . I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years, with very complicated and advanced technological methods, that this is the case.”2 (To view the RealPlayer video of this comment click here ). Also he said: “Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin


Note: There is much more evidence i can provide.

Trust me, an ardent sceptic whose heart is not free of prejudice will not believe any evidence, not even if it is worth the weight of a mountain. I once heard the renowned scientist atheist Prof . Meyers exclaim that all the scientific verses in the Quran were just guesses and lucky to be right. A scientist basing his argument on luck.
 
Where does it say that? It clearly states "loins", not spine.

Wrong.

Quran 86:5 Now let man but think from what he is created! 6. He is created from a drop emitted- 7. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs

It is kind of hard to take someone who doesn't even know what their own holy book says seriously.

Apparently your god doesn't know simple human biology.
 
Trust me, an ardent sceptic whose heart is not free of prejudice will not believe any evidence, not even if it is worth the weight of a mountain. I once heard the renowned scientist atheist Prof . Meyers exclaim that all the scientific verses in the Quran were just guesses and lucky to be right. A scientist basing his argument on luck.

Mountains do NOT stop earthquakes as the quran claims. There is plenty of evidence to prove this just from a 2 minute search on the internet.

http://www.livescience.com/18548-diving-mountains-stop-start-earthquakes-subduction-seamounts.html

http://www.state.nv.us/nucwaste/yucca/seismo01.htm

http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/everest-avalanche-nepal-quake-devastation/

So the quran is supposed to be directly from god and it makes demonstrably false claims. Why would an unbeliever EVER take your religion seriously?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Please try to prove to me your religion is true.
Sorry, first I want to understand some points about your religion "Agnostic Atheism". Isn't Agnosticism different from Atheism? There are people who hold them different and won't like to club them together. Right?
Please give your own understanding rather than from the lexicon/dictionary.
Regards
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Your "evidence" has been debunked, repeatedly, long ago. Besides, your quran that is supposedly divine and direct from god says that semen comes from between a man's spine and ribs. How would the creator of the universe not know simple human biology?
It never does say that.
Wrong.

Quran 86:5 Now let man but think from what he is created! 6. He is created from a drop emitted- 7. Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs

It is kind of hard to take someone who doesn't even know what their own holy book says seriously.

Apparently your god doesn't know simple human biology.
Apparently you do not know how to comprehend. The verse specifically mentions the entire fluid of semen, not just the sperm. Sperm is stored in the Epididymis which is not in the testacles. The sperm which contains 2-5% of the seminal fluid travels up to the Vas Defernes and around the bladder. Together the Seminal Vesicle and the Prostate Gland produce 90% of the fluid in semen. This makes it travel through the Prostate which joins the mucus in the Bulbournethral Gland. Just below the Prostate. It is at that point that the semen is fully formed comprising of both the sperm and seminal fluids. Just prior to coming out of the body, all components of semen are mixed near the prostate which is between the backbone and the ribs or between the spine and the chest which is between the back of the abdomen thorso and most certaintly NOT IN THE TESTICLES or LOWER BODY at all. So just to clarify: semen does not come from the testicles, only sperm is produced there which comprises 2-5% of semen.


So, the Qur'an did not make no error. This is a misconception.
 
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