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Turns out Ground Zero Mosque protesters are racists too!

Troublemane

Well-Known Member
[youtube]4LMd0zL43Hc[/youtube]
:facepalm: :facepalm:
Thoughts?

Calling all the protesters racist due to the actions of a small minority is as assinine as calling all muslims terrorists. With one critical difference.....the jerks who yelled at that guy did not then drag him through the street and behead him.:no:
 

Bismillah

Submit
No, they're just being called out for singling out one religious group due to their own prejudices and their inability to control them. This is just an example of said prejudices.
 

kai

ragamuffin
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aside from benignly treating the cults of Rome the Romans didn't seem like a very civilized bunch. I mean if the Gladiator games and crucifixions conclude anything it's that they seemed to hate anything that didn't fit their own polytheistic views? sure but what about the roads the aqua ducts the engineering marvels thay may have been bloodthirsty but they were the civilisation of the day.

What I was trying to say was that during the Ummayad Dynasty Islamic education and theology reached its peak and after the decline so too did the progressive Islamic thinking. As in, when Islam reached its height the Ummah also treated all inhabitants most humanely as opposed to later rulers who reverted to tyrannical rule. swings and roundabouts though isnt it you just cant swoon over a golden age of enlightenmemt and forget all the rest like the Almoravids and the Almohads.


Yeah, the Berbers did invade Spain, but do you know that some Christian kingdoms helped the Muslims fight the Goths? It's not as if the Muslims subjugated the Christian residents to executions and the like that was so common when these roles were reversed.
Yes i am and are you aware that some Muslims helped fight other Muslims what about the Martyrs of Córdoba take of the rose coloured glasses for just a moment and see the whole picture has some flaws.

Martyrs of Córdoba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


lets not derail the thread with this very interesting conversation: heres one i started earlier:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/historical-debates/71182-spain-al-andalus.html
 

Tiapan

Grumpy Old Man
Not all muslims are terrorists. Given 1 in 6 of the worlds population is muslim I would suggest a proportion of those 3000 killed in the 2 towers disaster were also muslim. Should not their lives be respected also?

Cheers
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
There's a whole lot MORE of the article that I didn't post - the article was very long. That's why I posted the source - so people could go there and read the rest of the article.

But I'll play your game. From the sections that you seem to think I had some sinister reason to leave out:


they were not forced to live in ghettoes or other special locations
they were not slaves


Wow - impressive. That's about like saying "Well, under Saddam, the Kurds were not forced to live in ghettos and they weren't slaves - what were they complaining about?

they were not prevented from following their faith
they were not forced to convert or die under Muslim rule

Well, this isn't even true - and is contradicted later in the very same article. At first they were not - but as the hundreds of years of Arab occupation continued, the treatment of dhimmis became harsher and harsher.

they were not banned from any particular ways of earning a living; they often took on jobs shunned by Muslims;

Wow - GREAT! Why, those ungrateful...

they could work in the civil service of the Islamic rulers

This was only because Arabs were the minority in the countries they overran, and they used local people to help maintain order - sort of like Nazis used Jewish people as "mayors" of the ghettos or concentration camp guards. This was also explained later in the same article.

Jews and Christians were able to contribute to society and culture

Yes - in spite of their treatment and classification of dhimmis.

Islamic Spain is sometimes described as a 'golden age' of religious and ethnic tolerance and interfaith harmony between Muslims, Christians and Jews.

Some historians believe this idea of a golden age is false and might lead modern readers to believe, wrongly, that Muslim Spain was tolerant by the standards of 21st century Britain.

The true position is more complicated. The distinguished historian Bernard Lewis wrote that the status of non-Muslims in Islamic Spain was a sort of second-class citizenship but he went on to say:

Second-class citizenship, though second class, is a kind of citizenship. It involves some rights, though not all, and is surely better than no rights at all...
...A recognized status, albeit one of inferiority to the dominant group, which is established by law, recognized by tradition, and confirmed by popular assent, is not to be despised. Bernard Lewis, The Jews of Islam, 1984


Yes, and then this section was followed by a rebuttal and descriptions of mistreatment and oppression of Christians and Jews by their conquerors.

Jews and Christians were considered vile - barely above human (especially the Jews). No amount of whitewashing will change this facet of history.

I'm not saying that other societies haven't done the same to other groups - this has been the unfortunate modus operandum of most of humanity when it comes to conquered peoples.

My point is that Muslim rule was no different - there was nothing noble and self sacrificial, or even fair and decent, about their conquest and rule over their conquered territories.

And by the way, a bit more history - out of their 800 years of rule in Europe, only about 200-300 of those years was actually progressive or "golden." There were hundreds of years of decline before their eventual ousting. Sounds about like every other empire in history - Some good things, some impressive years and rulers, but overall - cruel and oppressive treatment of those who were conquered, decline, and eventual loss of power - at the hands of those who they conquered.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Not all muslims are terrorists. Given 1 in 6 of the worlds population is muslim I would suggest a proportion of those 3000 killed in the 2 towers disaster were also muslim. Should not their lives be respected also?

Cheers


Sure Muslims were killed that day as well. In fact, if you're Muslim, you have a greater chance of being murdered by a Muslim terrorist than you do at the hands of any other creed or ethnic group.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Unfortunately, a good portion of the country are both Republicans and Christian -- two of the most fear mongered demographics that exists on this planet.

Lefties are such a hoot! They think that Democrat, Islamic & Jewish fear mongering is somehow morally superior to Republican & Christian
fear mongering. Such partisan bickering is like watching 2 little kids fight, each one thinking it's the other kid with the problems.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Calling all the protesters racist due to the actions of a small minority is as assinine as calling all muslims terrorists. With one critical difference.....the jerks who yelled at that guy did not then drag him through the street and behead him.:no:

Not everyone who thinks it's in poor taste to build a mosque so close to the site is a bigot. They may be simply misinformed, or prioritize feelings (theirs, anyway) over ethics. Or, like Howard Dean, they may be politicians reacting to the polls. Or, they might work for Newscorp and promoting controversy that benefits the GOP is in their job description. However, everyone who opposes it so passionately they've taken to the streets with anti-Islamic signs and T-shirts is most certainly a racist.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Not everyone who thinks it's in poor taste to build a mosque so close to the site is a bigot. They may be simply misinformed, or prioritize feelings (theirs, anyway) over ethics. Or, like Howard Dean, they may be polititians reacting to the polls. However, everyone who opposes it so passionately they've taken to the streets with anti-Islamic signs and T-shirts is most certainly a racist.

Are you suggesting that Dean & Reid aren't racist, simply cuz they object to the mosque from their podiums?
I think you cut them too much slack. "Racist" is the wrong word, since race isn't even the issue. (All the Muslims
I know look white...some in a swarthy Italian sort of way.) I'd say all objectors are showing some religious bigotry.
Although.....I can understand that there's a loss of tax revenue with the new building. I sympathize with that motive.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
They might be bigots. They might not. But, being politicians, they react to public opinion polls. There's no way to know what they really think about anything until they retire from politics and have someone ghost-write their memoirs.
 

FlyingTeaPot

Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
Calling all the protesters racist due to the actions of a small minority is as assinine as calling all muslims terrorists. With one critical difference.....the jerks who yelled at that guy did not then drag him through the street and behead him.:no:

I meant the protesters in the video. I thought that was pretty obvious. If it wasn't, I am sorry and shall be more mindful of generalizations in the future. :)
And you, my dear sir, are guilty of the same when you say they did not behead him, implying that all Muslims deal with protesters in the same way :D
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
They might be bigots. They might not. But, being politicians, they react to public opinion polls. There's no way to know what they really think about anything until they retire from politics and have someone ghost-write their memoirs.

It reminds me of a favorite Vonnegut quote....
"Be careful what you pretend to be because you are what you pretend to be."
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
It was far more than just the pagans persecuting the Christians, religious persecution was widespread in ancient Rome.

To give a concrete example of how the Romans were worse than other empires of the time, Egypt allowed women to own property until it fell under Roman law, which forbade it.

Remembering my Humanities lesson it was with anyone who wouldn't pledge loyalty to the state (aka the empirer). If you were secretive, or seen as such, that didn't help either. Like with the Christian's who had their own language it seemed at the time and met in each others homes and refused to pledge loyalty to the state. It was all alerts to the state that they weren't loyal and could have been treasonists or something so they were seen as the enemy which is why the prosecution.
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
Calling all the protesters racist due to the actions of a small minority is as assinine as calling all muslims terrorists. With one critical difference.....the jerks who yelled at that guy did not then drag him through the street and behead him.:no:

Is that supposed to be some lame excuse for their racism? And it's also racist to assume anyone who is Muslim is of a certain skin color. Psst white people are Muslim's too. :thud:
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
Sure Muslims were killed that day as well. In fact, if you're Muslim, you have a greater chance of being murdered by a Muslim terrorist than you do at the hands of any other creed or ethnic group.

Especially if you're in another group that is strongly disliked. I heard somewhere the guy who is funding the not a mosque is a part of a sect that is widely disliked because they're seen as liberal in their tolerance of others etc. They're radical in that sense but not like AlQida type radical.
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
Lefties are such a hoot! They think that Democrat, Islamic & Jewish fear mongering is somehow morally superior to Republican & Christian
fear mongering. Such partisan bickering is like watching 2 little kids fight, each one thinking it's the other kid with the problems.

Then maybe you should stop being that way. :facepalm:
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
Not everyone who thinks it's in poor taste to build a mosque so close to the site is a bigot. They may be simply misinformed, or prioritize feelings (theirs, anyway) over ethics. Or, like Howard Dean, they may be politicians reacting to the polls. Or, they might work for Newscorp and promoting controversy that benefits the GOP is in their job description. However, everyone who opposes it so passionately they've taken to the streets with anti-Islamic signs and T-shirts is most certainly a racist.

I still think it's freakin hilarious people think Howard Dean is some radical left wing liberal. LOL. He isn't. He's a conservative democrat. Only thing different from him and Hillary Clinton is he isn't with the DLC I don't think. Other wise there's nothing different about them. I remember when he was running for president people asked him about gay marriage getting approved when he was governor and he signed it and he said he was forced to because of it passing. He didn't say how he was proud to support it or anything like that. So please he isn't some left wing radical or something. He's a conservative democratic politician.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Then maybe you should stop being that way. :facepalm:

You misunderstand me....I have no superiority, moral or any other kind.
Although...I do know more than most here about the history of machine tools & engines.
Oh, and groundskeeping...I have a lot of experience with that.
 
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