umm, you do realize that our country was set up as democratic REPUBLIC specifically to help prevent the majority from tyrannizing and suppressing the minority, right?
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Turns out Ground Zero Mosque protesters are racists too!
- Thread starter FlyingTeaPot
- Start date
umm, you do realize that our country was set up as democratic REPUBLIC specifically to help prevent the majority from tyrannizing and suppressing the minority, right?
Smoke
Done here.
I know. But when people quote my post and then say something, I tend to think they're responding to my post.
Smoke
Done here.
I don't know what question you mean, but if you mean why I don't like Christianity, there are two good examples right in your post:
And Since when is this country a reverse democracy, in which the minority, not the majority rule.
This disdain for the constitutional rights of non-Christians is all too common among Christians. That's one reason I don't like Christianity.
I've also heard from a couple friends that its name in Arabic is victory. (I said heard. I havent looked into it to see if its true or not. I just thought i should throw that out there.)
Don't know what you're talking about, can't be bothered to find out whether what you're saying is true, but feel it's important to say it anyway, since it seems to support your opinion. Another behavior that's disturbingly common -- not so much among Christians in general, but among Evangelicals.
In short, while I find the truth claims of Christianity implausible, what really turns me off is the behavior Christianity seems to encourage.
Smoke
Done here.
The original name was Cordoba House. Neither Cordoba nor House is Arabic for victory.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
But is it just bad taste that the protesting is about? Or is it simply because they are Muslim? Should it make a difference that they are not radical Muslim terrorists?
Well, it's a Republic, hence the checks against the "tyranny of the majority" like the electoral college.
This is what Wiki says about it: Park51 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
kai
ragamuffin
no indeed its not , Its the name of a city in Spain. they can call it what they like as far as i am concerned.
why not call it after the capital of your greatest capital of Empire, your most advanced emirate in Europe? I mean you wouldnt want to call it after anything less would you? Unless the spread of your particular civilisation into someone else's country by conquering that country is not your game.
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Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
A little history lesson. Gather 'round, chitlins.
Cordoba is a city in Spain. It was captured by Muslims in the early 700s and in 716 it was made the Muslim capital of the Al Andelus region of Spain. It was the heartland of Muslim rule in the Andalusia region.
It took the Muslims seven years to defeat and conquer Spain.
During the occupation of Spain (which lasted about 700 years) the rights of Jews and Christians were restricted and they were treated with contempt by the Muslims, relegated to the status of dhimmis - second class citizens. Over time, their persecutions intensified to include imprisonment and execution for practicing their faiths.
Cordoba was a wealthy, influential cultural center of Islam - full of beauty, intellectualism, cruelty and intolerance.
Cordoba is a city in Spain. It was captured by Muslims in the early 700s and in 716 it was made the Muslim capital of the Al Andelus region of Spain. It was the heartland of Muslim rule in the Andalusia region.
It took the Muslims seven years to defeat and conquer Spain.
During the occupation of Spain (which lasted about 700 years) the rights of Jews and Christians were restricted and they were treated with contempt by the Muslims, relegated to the status of dhimmis - second class citizens. Over time, their persecutions intensified to include imprisonment and execution for practicing their faiths.
Cordoba was a wealthy, influential cultural center of Islam - full of beauty, intellectualism, cruelty and intolerance.
Requia
Active Member
There is of course a second tale, that the Cordoba Caliphate was unique in the ancient Muslim world for its tolerance of Christians and Jews. Regardless of whether or not it's true, this is the tale that's believed in the Muslim community, and its where Cordoba House got its name.
kai
ragamuffin
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Muslims in Cordoba didn't KILL Jews and Christians (at first -this came later in their rule) for their faith. However, not killing someone is not the same as being the model of tolerance and integration.
Here are the rules which applied to Jews and Christians in Cordoba under Muslim rule:
In Islamic Spain, Jews and Christians were tolerated if they:
Many Christians in Spain assimilated parts of the Muslim culture. Some learned Arabic, some adopted the same clothes as their rulers (some Christian women even started wearing the veil); some took Arabic names. Christians who did this were known as Mozarabs.
The Muslim rulers didn't give their non-Muslim subjects equal status; as Bat Ye'or has stated, the non-Muslims came definitely at the bottom of society.
Here are the rules which applied to Jews and Christians in Cordoba under Muslim rule:
In Islamic Spain, Jews and Christians were tolerated if they:
- acknowledged Islamic superiority
- accepted Islamic power
- paid a tax called Jizya to the Muslim rulers and sometimes paid higher rates of other taxes
- avoided blasphemy
- did not try to convert Muslims
- complied with the rules laid down by the authorities. These included:
- restrictions on clothing and the need to wear a special badge
- restrictions on building synagogues and churches
- not allowed to carry weapons
- could not receive an inheritance from a Muslim
- could not bequeath anything to a Muslim
- could not own a Muslim slave
- a dhimmi man could not marry a Muslim woman (but the reverse was acceptable)
- a dhimmi could not give evidence in an Islamic court
- dhimmis would get lower compensation than Muslims for the same injury
Many Christians in Spain assimilated parts of the Muslim culture. Some learned Arabic, some adopted the same clothes as their rulers (some Christian women even started wearing the veil); some took Arabic names. Christians who did this were known as Mozarabs.
The Muslim rulers didn't give their non-Muslim subjects equal status; as Bat Ye'or has stated, the non-Muslims came definitely at the bottom of society.
Society was sharply divided along ethnic and religious lines, with the Arab tribes at the top of the hierarchy, followed by the Berbers who were never recognized as equals, despite their Islamization; lower in the scale came the mullawadun converts and, at the very bottom, the dhimmi Christians and Jews.
Bat Ye'or, Islam and Dhimmitude, 2002
The Muslims did not explicitly hate or persecute the non-Muslims. As Bernard Lewis puts it:
Bat Ye'or, Islam and Dhimmitude, 2002
The Muslims did not explicitly hate or persecute the non-Muslims. As Bernard Lewis puts it:
in contrast to Christian anti-Semitism, the Muslim attitude toward non-Muslims is one not of hate or fear or envy but simply of contempt
Bernard Lewis, The Jews of Islam, 1984
An example of this contempt is found in this 12th century ruling:
Bernard Lewis, The Jews of Islam, 1984
An example of this contempt is found in this 12th century ruling:
A Muslim must not massage a Jew or a Christian nor throw away his refuse nor clean his latrines. The Jew and the Christian are better fitted for such trades, since they are the trades of those who are vile.
12th Century ruling
Why were non-Muslims tolerated in Islamic Spain?
There were several reasons why the Muslim rulers tolerated rival faiths:
Not all the Muslim rulers of Spain were tolerant. Almanzor looted churches and imposed strict restrictions.
The position of non-Muslims in Spain deteriorated substantially from the middle of the 11th century as the rulers became more strict and Islam came under greater pressure from outside.
Christians were not allowed taller houses than Muslims, could not employ Muslim servants, and had to give way to Muslims on the street.
Christians could not display any sign of their faith outside, not even carrying a Bible. There were persecutions and executions.
One notorious event was a pogrom in Granada in 1066, and this was followed by further violence and discrimination as the Islamic empire itself came under pressure.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/spain_1.shtml
12th Century ruling
Why were non-Muslims tolerated in Islamic Spain?
There were several reasons why the Muslim rulers tolerated rival faiths:
- Judaism and Christianity were monotheistic faiths, so arguably their members were worshipping the same God
- The Christians outnumbered the Muslims
- so mass conversion or mass execution was not practical
- outlawing or controlling the beliefs of so many people would have been massively expensive
- Bringing non-Muslims into government provided the rulers with administrators
- who were loyal (because not attached to any of the various Muslim groups)
- who could be easily disciplined or removed if the need arose. (One Emir went so far as to have a Christian as the head of his bodyguard.)
- Passages in the Qur'an said that Christians and Jews should be tolerated if they obeyed certain rules
Not all the Muslim rulers of Spain were tolerant. Almanzor looted churches and imposed strict restrictions.
The position of non-Muslims in Spain deteriorated substantially from the middle of the 11th century as the rulers became more strict and Islam came under greater pressure from outside.
Christians were not allowed taller houses than Muslims, could not employ Muslim servants, and had to give way to Muslims on the street.
Christians could not display any sign of their faith outside, not even carrying a Bible. There were persecutions and executions.
One notorious event was a pogrom in Granada in 1066, and this was followed by further violence and discrimination as the Islamic empire itself came under pressure.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/spain_1.shtml
kai
ragamuffin
That sounds great lets name our centre for understanding after that?? hey no one will ever know!!!! who bothers with history these days anyway
Smoke
Done here.
Thank God that tolerance and equality were restored after the Reconquista.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
The other side of the coin, Bill, is what prompted the Reconquista? It is sort of an odd way to treat people that were so kind and tolerant. I could understand if the Reconquista had gone on for a couple of years... but almost 800 years? By any measure that is a long time to hold a grudge. Obviously some folks weren't too happy with their Muslim overlords.
kai
ragamuffin
Those ungrateful Dhimmi!! what can you do?
The Neo Nerd
Well-Known Member
All i can say is beware the power of stupid people i large groups.
-Q
-Q
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
In spite of the typo, this may be the smartest thing posted on this thread so far.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
It was still a time of intellectualism and strong culture and trade. I think that's what the name is going for. At any rate, I doubt it is a snub towards Christians and Jews. The reason appears to reference the name as a time of collaborative learning, which does speak to the ideals of tolerance and education they seem to be pushing.
A bad name choice? I would agree. It has been changed, so I only hope the original name's intention was in the spirit of cooperation.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
The Neo Nerd
Well-Known Member
Why thankyou