Unbridled Capitalism is self-destructive

[Revoltingest]

IMO, the key difference is whom has the power and how it's set up with others. Socialists are not power hungry and want to help all people, whereas a fascist wants power for themselves and for those who support him.

This is a case of the no-true-socialist fallacy.
Socialists certainly can be fascist.
And the dictionary version of socialism (no capitalism)
has 100% of the time been accompanied by fascism.

 

[Estro Felino]

IMO, the key difference is whom has the power and how it's set up with others. Socialists are not power hungry and want to help all people, whereas a fascist wants power for themselves and for those who support him. The latter usually are "populists" who con people by pretending to be socialists so as to gain public support and Mussolini, much like Trump, was basically a con man. After all, a socialist wouldn't have "political enemies" killed in Italian-held parts of Africa as Mussolini did.

Honestly I rely on historical facts.

Back when T. Roosevelt was doing elitist stuff in his fancy WH office, Mussolini was organizing a farm workers' strike against the abusive exploitation of the great landowners in Predappio, his hometown. He was even arrested for insulting a landowner.

I guess there are those who side with the élites, no matter what.
And there are those who have always sided with commoners, no matter what. Let alone the methods.

 

[Estro Felino]

This is a case of the no-true-socialist fallacy.
Socialists certainly can be fascist.
And the dictionary version of socialism (no capitalism)
has 100% of the time been accompanied by fascism.

Exactly.

 

[Audie]

Honestly I rely on historical facts.

Back when Teddy Roosevelt was doing elitist stuff for elites and Freemasons in his fancy WH office, Mussolini was organizing a farm workers' strike against the abusive exploitation of the great landowners in Predappio, his hometown. He was even arrested for insulting a landowner.

I guess there are those who side with the élites, no matter what.
And there are those who have always sided with commoners, no matter what. Let alone the methods.

Methods. Yes.
Attack Ethiopia to help restore the
Roman empire.

 

[metis]

Mussolini was organizing a farm workers' strike against the abusive exploitation of the great landowners in Predappio, his hometown. He was even arrested for insulting a landowner.

He also strongly suppressed the Mafia but that doesn't make him a socialist. And Mussolinin was quite power-hungry.

 

[Estro Felino]

He also strongly suppressed the Mafia but that doesn't make him a socialist. And Mussolinin was quite power-hungry.

Fascists were defined as clownish and aggressive imperialists, Balbo above all.


De facto the Fascist Government was made up by Socialists as well, and socialist reforms were made.

I am a socialist, and so I cannot not praise all the good things done in those years.

 

[Heyo]

This is a case of the no-true-socialist fallacy.
Socialists certainly can be fascist.
And the dictionary version of socialism (no capitalism)
has 100% of the time been accompanied by fascism.

The dictionary version of fascism?

 

[metis]

Fascists were defined as clownish and aggressive imperialists, Balbo above all.


De facto the Fascist Government was made up by Socialists as well, and socialist reforms were made.

I am a socialist, and so I cannot not praise all the good things done in those years.

Again, the socialist and fascist mindsets and intentions are different as they represent opposites on the political/economic spectrum.

 

[Estro Felino]

Again, the socialist and fascist mindsets and intentions are different as they represent opposites on the political/economic spectrum.

Surely. You are surely right.
But nowadays historians all agree that Mussolini, after WW1, joined the Fascist Party in order to have a violent, aggressive militia to suppress democracy. Because democracy would have prevented him from implementing all those labor reforms which improved factory workers and farm workers' lives.
Nobody is denying that the methods were dictatorial, violent, despicable. But the result was an economic and social improvement.

 

[Patrick66]

The dictionary version of fascism?

The definitions written by leftist academics and ideologues that want to redefine fascism as a "far-right" ideology?

 

[Patrick66]

Surely. You are surely right.
But nowadays historians all agree that Mussolini, after WW1, joined the Fascist Party in order to have a violent, aggressive militia to suppress democracy. Because democracy would have prevented him from implementing all those labor reforms which improved factory workers and farm workers' lives.
Nobody is denying that the methods were dictatorial, violent, despicable. But the result was an economic and social improvement.

That's true. And many western leftists of the 1920's and 30's had high praise for Mussolini and his fascist system of governance and economics.

 

[Heyo]

The definitions written by leftist academics and ideologues that want to redefine fascism as a "far-right" ideology?

Do you know where the fascists in the parliaments of Italy, Germany and Spain were seated?

 

[Patrick66]

Do you know where the fascists in the parliaments of Italy, Germany and Spain were seated?

Irrelevant. If fascism is a far-right ideology, why then did FDR and a gazillion other leftists love it so much?

 

[Estro Felino]

Do you know where the fascists in the parliaments of Italy, Germany and Spain were seated?

There are so many shades of Socialism, I guess.
Can you explain me why the heir of the Fascist Party, at the end of WW2 was called Movimento Sociale Italiano?

 

[Estro Felino]

Irrelevant. If fascism is a far-right ideology, why then did FDR and a gazillion other leftists love it so much?

Etymologically, it's a term created by Italians, because at the end of the Nineteenth Century there was nothing but riots, strikes and turmoil. Mostly caused by anarchists, but workers played a significant role too.
The king was murdered in 1900, go figure, by an anarchist. Fascism was something violent, that came as a reaction to reject the old constitutional order, and the Fasci as a farm workers' movement.
In other words Mussolini created an army, a militia to suppress the constitutional order.

Fasci Siciliani - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Patrick66]

In other words Mussolini created an army, a militia to suppress the constitutional order.

Sort of like antifa.

 

[Estro Felino]

Sort of like antifa.

Much more violent.

 

[Patrick66]

Much more violent.

That I believe.

 

[Watchmen]

Not only Christians but also atheists (thinkers, mainly) have reached the awareness that the 20th century (and this 21st) have proved beyond any reasonable doubt that economic growth is a good thing. But it cannot be restless and infinite, because we are mortal beings and because we live in a finite world.
So it's like applying limitless and restless criteria on a limited, finite world.
It's absolutely contradictory: unbridled Capitalism benefits from eternal, restless and continuous growth. More people are on Earth, more customers will buy Capitalists' products, and more profit will be made.
But, the more world population grows, the more we need to increase the production of goods and services. The more we need to exploit waters, to raise farm animals, to grow plants, to cut down trees, to deplete seas.
And the more we will increase the production, the more workers we will need, so more and more workforce. More and more millions and millions of workers.
And more and more people on Earth, more and more Capitalism. It's a vicious cycle. A self-destructive vicious cycle because sooner or later all petroleum, all resources, all trees will run out.

Profit Maximization → More workers needed → Population needs to increase → More and more production to support the population growth → more and more workers → more and more population → more and more production → profit maximization

Imagine another scenario: small communities where all cooperate. There is a very limited and state-controlled capitalism. People invest and make profit for the community's sake, and not for their own personal gain. Since there is not the obsession with profit maximization, people will produce only what they need.
Less and less workers needed. Less and less births. Less and less production.

I think unbridled capitalism and profit maximization are evil concepts. That belong in minds with a very low degree of awareness.

Can you name any country in the world that practices “unbridled capitalism?”

 

[Heyo]

Irrelevant. If fascism is a far-right ideology, why then did FDR and a gazillion other leftists love it so much?

Irrelevant? Do you know how the distinction between "left" and "right" emanated?