• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Unbridled Capitalism is self-destructive

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
For the record: Italians invented the word Fascism.

If we speak of mainstream fascism, yes, it's a far-right ideology.

If we speak of Italian Fascism, the policies were left-wing.
People often manipulate language to
demonize the other tribe, & sanitize
their own.
But the definition applies to both left & right.
Lefties might notice that it applies even more
to them because of economic authoritarianism.
  1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
People often manipulate language to
demonize the other tribe, & sanitize
their own.
But the definition applies to both left & right.
Lefties might notice that it applies even more
to them because of economic authoritarianism.
  1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

After the Fall of Fascism, no law made by Fascism about society and economy was touched. None. They're still there. There are still the penal code and the civil code created by Fascism.
It means there has never been a defascistization here. BM was a Prime Minister who died. Period.

There's still this antagonizing banks. It's still there.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
To the left-wing world, fascism is all right-wing.
How convenient.
For the record: Italians invented the word Fascism.

If we speak of mainstream fascism, yes, it's a far-right ideology.

If we speak of Italian Fascism, the policies were left-wing.
So what would separate left fascism from communism? If fascism can be leftwing, then can communism be rightwing?

Fascism - Wikipedia :shrug:
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I stick to dictionary definitions.
So we're in agreement then:
fascism
/ (ˈfæʃɪzəm) /


noun(sometimes capital)
  1. any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism
  2. any ideology, movement, programme, tendency, etc, that may be characterized as right-wing, chauvinist, authoritarian, etc
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
So we're in agreement then:
You found a different definition.
What's your source?
To limit "fascism" to only regimes where
it was "inspired by" Italian fascism strikes
me as ridiculously narrow. Is inspiration
really critical to using the term? It might
mean that fascism applies only in Italy.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
So what would separate left fascism from communism? If fascism can be leftwing, then can communism be rightwing?

Fascism - Wikipedia :shrug:
They are pretty different because the Italian Fascism somehow came into terms with the banking system, whereas Stalinism nationalized the banking system. They are both totalitarian regimes, of course.
The latter stifles capitalism; the first approves of capitalism, as long as it complies with the governmental guidelines.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
You found a different definition.
What's your source?
To limit "fascism" to only regimes where
it was "inspired by" Italian fascism strikes
me as ridiculously narrow. Is inspiration
really critical to using the term? It might
mean that fascism applies only in Italy.
Because nowadays the term fascism is used to describe any nationalistic totalitarian regime that suppresses the fundamental freedoms, such as freedom of speech, and so on.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Because nowadays the term fascism is used to describe any nationalistic totalitarian regime that suppresses the fundamental freedoms, such as freedom of speech, and so on.
That is indeed the common usage that guides lexicographers.
Is Wikipedia's entry written by lexicographers, or by people
who have a more historical or agenda laden perspective?
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
That is indeed the common usage that guides lexicographers.
Is Wikipedia's entry written by lexicographers, or by people
who have a more historical or agenda laden perspective?
Wikipedia is written by anyone.
I have written many Wikipedia pages in Italian about history, archaeology, movies, art, myself.
Never about politics.

So...
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
To the right-wing world, socialism is all left-wing.
How convenient.

(Words have meaning. I prefer the dictionary meaning.)

Yes, although it seems that politics has no rules regarding "truth in advertising."
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
@Revoltingest @Estro Felino

Of course there is both leftwing and rightwing authoritarianism (all bad). I'm just saying that I've only read/heard "fascism" as reference to the latter.
I see broader use of "fascism" that comports with dictionaries.
The extremely narrow version you found is still fascism, just
not the only kind in common parlance.
If it's of any comfort, I'd take a crap in both Stalin's and Mussolini's caskets.
I aprprove.
But avoid surveillance cameras.
We don't want you rotting in some 3rd world country's prison.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I see broader use of "fascism" that comports with dictionaries.
The extremely narrow version you found is still fascism, just
not the only kind in common parlance.
The problem is having a vision that is either all black or all white.
Reality is not like that.
Capitalism coexists with socialism in many European countries. They coexist because they are compatible.

In my opinion, people reinterpret and rewrite history and so they need to use these terms (capitalism and socialism) as propaganda tools.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The problem is having a vision that is either all black or all white.
Reality is not like that.
Capitalism coexists with socialism in many European countries. They coexist because they are compatible.
Still using a definition of socialism that is capitalistic, eh.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So what would separate left fascism from communism? If fascism can be leftwing, then can communism be rightwing?

Fascism - Wikipedia :shrug:

It could be. The salient feature of fascism is malignant nationalism and/or racism. It's generally associated with the right-wing because nationalism tends to rely upon national traditions and glorifies the history of the nation, as well as the old-fashioned ideals of a "glorious" past which conservatives tend to relate positively towards. Because of this, countries under a fascist government have tended to go on a war footing and become militaristic, in which the whole society becomes geared towards war. The public and even the business community might accept this if they are convinced (or perhaps conned) into thinking that the crisis is severe enough as to require such a degree of militarism and "temporary" abridgements of civil liberties. It wouldn't necessarily be socialist or communist, but it might appear that way whenever governments have to contend with what they consider a national emergency or other great crisis requiring the curtailment of civil liberties and possibly even the declaration of martial law.

As for communism, at least in terms of the ideal, it was intended to be internationalistic. For this reason alone, it's fundamentally at odds with the extreme malignant nationalism associated with fascism. In practice, socialist governments have been mostly entrenched and isolated from the world community, and as a result, they adopted a more defensive, quasi-nationalistic posture which took on many of the same characteristics as fascism.

The point is that whatever these ideologies might be on paper or in a dictionary definition, when it actually gets put into practice at the state level, the same mechanisms of politics are at work and a lot of revising and improvising goes on.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It could be. The salient feature of fascism is malignant nationalism and/or racism. It's generally associated with the right-wing because nationalism tends to rely upon national traditions and glorifies the history of the nation, as well as the old-fashioned ideals of a "glorious" past which conservatives tend to relate positively towards. Because of this, countries under a fascist government have tended to go on a war footing and become militaristic, in which the whole society becomes geared towards war. The public and even the business community might accept this if they are convinced (or perhaps conned) into thinking that the crisis is severe enough as to require such a degree of militarism and "temporary" abridgements of civil liberties. It wouldn't necessarily be socialist or communist, but it might appear that way whenever governments have to contend with what they consider a national emergency or other great crisis requiring the curtailment of civil liberties and possibly even the declaration of martial law.

As for communism, at least in terms of the ideal, it was intended to be internationalistic. For this reason alone, it's fundamentally at odds with the extreme malignant nationalism associated with fascism. In practice, socialist governments have been mostly entrenched and isolated from the world community, and as a result, they adopted a more defensive, quasi-nationalistic posture which took on many of the same characteristics as fascism.

The point is that whatever these ideologies might be on paper or in a dictionary definition, when it actually gets put into practice at the state level, the same mechanisms of politics are at work and a lot of revising and improvising goes on.
That's a whole lotta unsupported claims.
 
Top