Undercover atheists in LDS Church

[waitasec]

:biglaugh: Sure, hon. Just keep telling yourself that. :biglaugh:

So, what's MY ulterior motive? How about Panda's?

because you are bored and you like to argue?
:drool:

 

[Storm]

because you are bored and you like to argue?
:drool:

Well, yeah. But I'm not a liar (unlike some).

 

[waitasec]

Do you have a point, or are you just moving the goalposts for fun?

i'm not moving goal posts...my argument has been consistent.

katzpur was not lied to and i want to know why she takes issue with their tactics, even though the people who were lied to were cool with it.

 

[waitasec]

Well, yeah. But I'm not a liar (unlike some).

what does that have anything to do with anything...

 

[Storm]

i'm not moving goal posts...my argument has been consistent.

katzpur was not lied to and i want to know why she takes issue with their tactics, even though the people who were lied to were cool with it.

Yeah, you are. You asked why people who weren't involved were offended. She answered. You started moving goalposts.

 

[Panda]

To me it is the dishonestly that really ****** me off. There is no need for that.

 

[waitasec]

Yeah, you are. You asked why people who weren't involved were offended. She answered. You started moving goalposts.

her answer is because they were dishonest....but that dishonesty has nothing to do with her, why take issue with something that has nothing to do with her? is it because she maybe uncomfortable that her faith was somehow in a vulnerable position?

 

[waitasec]

To me it is the dishonestly that really ****** me off. There is no need for that.

have you ever lied?

 

[Katzpur]

I asked everyone earlier: how did they lie? What were their lies, specifically? Can anyone give an example from the podcast of anything they said to any Mormon that was an actual lie?

Okay, they didn't lie. They were just dishonest. See this post. Ulterior motives are dishonest.

 

[Storm]

her answer is because they were dishonest....but that dishonesty has nothing to do with her, why take issue with something that has nothing to do with her? is it because she maybe uncomfortable that her faith was somehow in a vulnerable position?

IT was her entire community that was lied to. She has every right.

 

[Katzpur]

then you are simply being closed minded about the entire idea.

What? How am I being closed-minded, waitasec? Just a straightforward answer, please.

if you were i'm sure that would be a red flag...

Huh? If I was what?

the pink elephant is how women are treated...

How am I treated? Do you think that if I perceived that I was being treated badly, that I'd stick around for more? What kind of a masochist do you think I am anyway?

but wouldn't you agree that if one wanted to get an honest idea of how this particular church operated being undercover would be the best way, otherwise the one who's doing the investigation would assume everything is contrived.

How long do you think a congregation would be willing to "contrive" the way it functions simply to fool someone? Honestly, you really do seem to be paranoid about Mormonism. Try attending a few LDS church services anonymously for a few weeks. Go to a different one each time. Since you're in the Los Angeles area, that should be a piece of cake. Go to the whole three hours (if you can sit through it; I have a hard time myself). Don't tell anyone you're going to show up. That way they won't have time to change everything (to cover up the deep, dark secrets) at the last minute. Just go and observe. You'll see what it's really like and you'll be terribly disappointed at how unremarkably "normal" it is.

 

[waitasec]

IT was her entire community that was lied to. She has every right.

please...
the entire community...? i think you are being a little bit over dramatic
:faint:


she has every right to feel offended, my question is about the why this is offensive....

would an unexpected visit by an inspector offend a teacher?
if they were then i would wonder why, wouldn't you?

 

[Storm]

please...
the entire community...? i think you are being a little bit over dramatic

Am I? Did the "expose" not claim to be investigating Mormonism?

she has every right to feel offended, my question is about the why this is offensive....

Because lies always are. Sometimes they're justified, but they're never virtuous.

would an unexpected visit by an inspector offend a teacher?
if they were then i would wonder why, wouldn't you?

Apples and oranges, and you know it.

 

[On_a_Quest]

It entirely depends on if they told people they were just taking the classes to learn more about the LDS church or if they blatantly lied to the congregation and pretended that they were really interested in joining the church.

In the article it says that they had to "take vows of chastity and swear off hot drinks." As far as those vows go, if they intend to keep them, great, but if not, they are only lying to themselves.

 

[waitasec]

What? How am I being closed-minded, waitasec? Just a straightforward answer, please.

because you said you were not interested.

Huh? If I was what? excommunicated

don't worry about it, it was a bad joke

How am I treated? Do you think that if I perceived that I was being treated badly, that I'd stick around for more? What kind of a masochist do you think I am anyway?

i had an interesting conversation with another LDS member on the forum and she said she was not allowed to enter the priesthood
i then proceeded to explain that not being allowed to do anything is ultimately being subjeted to another person.
do you agree?

How long do you think a congregation would be willing to "contrive" the way it functions simply to fool someone? Honestly, you really do seem to be paranoid about Mormonism. Try attending a few LDS church services anonymously for a few weeks. Go to a different one each time. Since you're in the Los Angeles area, that should be a piece of cake. Go to the whole three hours (if you can sit through it; I have a hard time myself). Don't tell anyone you're going to show up. That way they won't have time to change everything (to cover up the deep, dark secrets) at the last minute. Just go and observe. You'll see what it's really like and you'll be terribly disappointed at how unremarkably "normal" it is.

i don't know, if i were representing an institution i believed in i would be concerned as to how a person sees it.

think about a new prospect for a certain position. they are invited to check out the facilities and everyone puts on a face which is essentially saying
it's all good here....in order to help entice their decision to fill the position.
then after a few months of working their do they pick up on the tension in the office, or something that wasn't presented in the initial introduction...like no one cleans up after themselves in the break room...little things like that.

 

[Panda]

have you ever lied?

Of course I have, no one can say they haven't. My point is the way they went about this was dishonest and gives atheists a bad reputation.

 

[waitasec]

Am I? Did the "expose" not claim to be investigating Mormonism?

Because lies always are. Sometimes they're justified, but they're never virtuous.

virtue is in the eye of the beholder...

Apples and oranges, and you know it.

not at all...
it's getting to the nitty gritty of how a community functions
or how a teacher teaches

 

[waitasec]

Of course I have, no one can say they haven't. My point is the way they went about this was dishonest and gives atheists a bad reputation.

that's fair.
i can agree to that...

 

[Storm]

You know what? I'm not this bored.

 

[waitasec]

You know what? I'm not this bored.

that's right go ahead and...
:run: