Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You can be as negative and cynical as you want. It doesn't affect me one way or the other.

Unlike yourself, I have faith.

Hebrews 11:1, "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

assurance: freedom from doubt; certainty about something.
evidence: knowledge on which to base belief

Faith is the opposite of doubt and unbelief.

I find it interesting how the interpretation of this passage by Christians has changed over the years.

Originally, the "things hoped for" were things that God had promised for the future and the "things unseen" were the trustworthiness and character of God.

They were "unseen" because humans can't see the future or peer into the mind of God... but if you talked to the average Christian, they'd say that the existence of God and the truth of past miracle claims were well-established by evidence.

... but over the centuries as we developed science and got better at investigating evidence, we realized that this wasn't the case, so Christians had to retreat to the position that the "things unseen" included God's very existence.

This is quite the downgrade when you think about it. I'm surprised it's enough to satisy modern Christians.

 

[Nakosis]

Paul's snake story is phony.

Today we have Marvel comics with science and mutations giving heroes superpowers.
Back then it was the Bible and God providing these superpowers.

Imagine a few thousand years from now folks reading a Spider-man comic as non-fiction.

 

[jimb]

I find it interesting how the interpretation of this passage by Christians has changed over the years.

Originally, the "things hoped for" were things that God had promised for the future and the "things unseen" were the trustworthiness and character of God.

They were "unseen" because humans can't see the future or peer into the mind of God... but if you talked to the average Christian, they'd say that the existence of God and the truth of past miracle claims were well-established by evidence.

... but over the centuries as we developed science and got better at investigating evidence, we realized that this wasn't the case, so Christians had to retreat to the position that the "things unseen" included God's very existence.

This is quite the downgrade when you think about it. I'm surprised it's enough to satisy modern Christians.

Please notice my new signature (below). It applies to you and others on this forum...

 

[jimb]

Today we have Marvel comics with science and mutations giving heroes superpowers.
Back then it was the Bible and God providing these superpowers.

Imagine a few thousand years from now folks reading a Spider-man comic as non-fiction.

Read my new signature (below)...

 

[jimb]

If the scriptures are written in a way that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to understand, why have them at all? Just give us the message personally in his own words. What's the worse that can happen if he did this?

Read my signature (below...

 

[Nakosis]

Read my new signature (below)...

Is that your superpower?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Is that your superpower?

I regard his signature as a lame excuse to justify his judgmental and obnoxious behavior. I think his posts reek with self-righteousness and are the polar opposite of "let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven" (Matthew 5:14–16).

 

[Alien826]

Agreed. There's also, "If you don't vote, you have no right to a political or policy opinion," as if voting confers that right or makes an opinion more valuable. Of course, maybe that's only an American thing, but it's certainly often said there.

Yes. I suppose you could say that if someone doesn't vote it suggests that they are not very sure of their political opinions (not prepared to back them up with action), but that has nothing to do with their right to hold their opinions. I would say that anyone is entitled to have any opinion. In fact how can you stop them? Once it becomes speech or action other factors kick in, but that's a separate matter.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I regard his signature as a lame excuse to justify his judgmental and obnoxious behavior. I think his posts reek with self-righteousness and are the polar opposite of "let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven" (Matthew 5:14–16).

But his light is shining, and he no doubt considers that he's glorifying his god. You, I and others have told him what a bad witness he is, but he's made it clear that he doesn't care what others think.

I say let him express these opinions often. Let him show us what his priests are teaching him and what kinds of people his religion generates. He does as much to make our points as we do. He might have me on ignore, but I look forward to reading his posts and enjoy commenting on them even if he never sees those comments.

I suppose you could say that if someone doesn't vote it suggests that they are not very sure of their political opinions

I'd say that you've described the undecided - the group that has no information about either candidate, who will be undecided on election day, and who will vote randomly.

The reasons we generally hear for not voting in America in 2024 include dissatisfaction with both candidates and difficulty voting. Twice, I found myself purged from voter rolls when I got to the voting booths.

 

[Eli G]

Although the Bible is a book that is considered the inspired word of God, it was written by ordinary men from different social backgrounds. The Bible is not written in unintelligible or technical terms, but in common, easily understandable language. The fact that its writers lived in many different eras and under different cultures made it easy to adapt the language they used to the specific development of each era, so readers could understand writings prior to the eras in which they were living, while others were being inspired to write new documents for future generations.

The Bible was not fossilized in ancient languages, but in each era it had translators who made it easier to read. Today we have many versions of parts of it in thousands of modern languages.

Given these and other aspects of the history of the Bible from the writing of each of its parts to modern translations, we not only have easy access to it, but we can also understand it as we read it and understand the related history with each part written in each different era. If we have good study methods we can understand it easily.

Although there are some doctrinal topics that are difficult to understand, there are many basic ones that are easy to understand. So starting from the easiest matters, it is possible to reach an understanding of its deeper teachings. We don't need theological studies to understand the Scriptures that God inspired to be written by ordinary people.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

But his light is shining, and he no doubt considers that he's glorifying his god. You, I and others have told him what a bad witness he is, but he's made it clear that he doesn't care what others think.

I say let him express these opinions often. Let him show us what his priests are teaching him and what kinds of people his religion generates. He does as much to make our points as we do. He might have me on ignore, but I look forward to reading his posts and enjoy commenting on them even if he never sees those comments.

When I was a Christian evangelism team leader, I believed and taught other Christians that they could either be a blessing to non-Christians and draw them closer to God or they could be a stumbling block and push non-Christians farther away from God and cause them to reject him. I told them that their primary purpose as Christians was to represent Jesus to others in word and deed. If they didn't do that, then their efforts to spread the gospel and make disciples would be in vain. One of my favorite songs when I was a Christian was "If We Are The Body" by Casting Crowns. I suggest reading the lyrics to this song, and you will understand why I played it for the Christians on my evangelism team. This song emphasized the importance of their personal witness.

Maybe the Christians who don't care what others think of them should listen to it as well.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

We will need almost a year to discuss them all, but let's start with my last message #1,376 above.
Does it matter if we have faith or good works to show (Paul against himself and James), or are we predestined before the world began as the Bible also claims?

What's the contradiction here?

Christians know that they are saved by grace through faith in the sufficiency of Christs death as atonement for sin and that should Adam and Eve fall under the temptation of the devil after creation, God had already set in motion a plan of redemption should that occur.

There is no contradiction, so what is your point here?

 

[AdamjEdgar]

He's here to preach, by which I mean he has something he wants you to hear but has no interest in what others have to say.

You're not interested in contrary opinions. You couldn't be any more clear about that when you put one voice after another on ignore after you read something from them that you don't like. But that's perfectly fine. You serve a useful purpose doing this.

In my estimation, the zealous Christian has already lost. You write as if living that life comes at no cost. One can see the ill effect too much religion can have here on this thread.

You live in a world of deceit, murder, pillaging of the environment ...and you think Christians are to blame? I think the evidence is against you being happy, given once you die its kaput is it not? Tell me, philosophically whats next for the atheist after they die?.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

claimed contradiction and documented them.

Where?

 

[Ajax]

We don't need theological studies to understand the Scriptures that God inspired to be written by ordinary people.

A lot of people suggest that the Bible was inspired by God. How exactly did He inspire the people's writings and how do we know that this inspiration really happened? For example do you consider a dream or a vision a valid form of inspiration?

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Agreed, but isn't that what all of the zealous religious types do? I've noted this frequently in my posting, most recently last week on this thread, as this search of my use of the word counterproductive demonstrates (the third of these five is another topic). They don't seem to care what effect they have on others. They don't mind that their behavior is just further confirmation that avoiding their path was a good choice. I include this to show you that I am not exaggerating about how frequent this is and how many times I've addressed believers about it:

View attachment 90026

I've also asked several about what motivates them, but none have answered. My leading hypothesis is that their martyring themselves. None have affirmed or denied this, which I take as tacit assent. Here's the "martyr" search:

View attachment 90027

You know one thing I've noticed about forums...people here debate as if they are making a difference. Given almost no one appears to ever change their minds, even i must admit, these are really just platforms for seagull sqawking.

 

[Kfox]

? from the source? The prophet Daniel got some messages from the Source. So did John in the book of Revelation. and otherwise. Jesus said at
Matthew 24:14 -
"And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come."

Well that was good for Daniel and John, but for everyone else being told to preach a gospel that is impossible for them to understand, it sounds like everyone else should be given the opportunity David and John were given.

 

[Kfox]

All the scripture is not IMPOSSIBLE to understand. Some scripture is easy to understand.

Well the person who started this thread says it is impossible to understand; I'm only responding in the context of what he believes.

God has given His message in His own words, to His Messengers. God only speaks to His Messengers and then they reveal what God said to humanity.

So why have scriptures if God can just tell hes messengers and they can give his message?

 

[Ajax]

What's the contradiction here?

Christians know that they are saved by grace through faith in the sufficiency of Christs death as atonement for sin and that should Adam and Eve fall under the temptation of the devil after creation, God had already set in motion a plan of redemption should that occur.

There is no contradiction, so what is your point here?

First of all you start on a wrong foot. There was never an Adam and Eve. Man has been around for at least 200,000 years. According to the Bible the universe was built in 6 literal days.

There is no contradiction if you don't need faith (and/or works) but you were predestined to be saved before the world began? And even worse, because you were not predestined, you will end up in hell? What kind of justice is this in a religion?

Talking of being saved which of the three is valid?
1) Rom 2:13 "For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified."

2) Gal 2:16 "(We) who know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ"
Eph 2:8-9 "“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.”

3) James 2:14 "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?...24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone....26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead."

 

[jimb]

I find it interesting how the interpretation of this passage by Christians has changed over the years.

Originally, the "things hoped for" were things that God had promised for the future and the "things unseen" were the trustworthiness and character of God.

They were "unseen" because humans can't see the future or peer into the mind of God... but if you talked to the average Christian, they'd say that the existence of God and the truth of past miracle claims were well-established by evidence.

... but over the centuries as we developed science and got better at investigating evidence, we realized that this wasn't the case, so Christians had to retreat to the position that the "things unseen" included God's very existence.

This is quite the downgrade when you think about it. I'm surprised it's enough to satisy modern Christians.

Read my signature below...