Unfair opinions about Islam :(

[Nietzsche]

My first thought is that you must have very little regard for human freedom if you follow Islam, but perhaps personal freedom is not important to you. And why a woman would choose to be Muslim I'll never understand. I am curious about why a 'God' would create three religions, with three different 'holy' books, each of which tells its followers to kill the followers of the other religions. Are you convinced there is any 'reality' to the deities you believe in?

Wow. It took a grand total of 19 posts to prove her point.

 

[Deidre]

Probably the best way I can put it, is that when you begin to follow a particular religion, not just support it, read about it, understand it, educate yourself on it, etc...you see it differently. The Islam I'm learning about, the history of Muhammad, and the religion itself...wasn't built on where it has been taken to.

It is no different than being a Catholic and learning about how the RCC used to kill heretics who didn't believe that the Eucharist was the body and blood of Christ. It hurts you on a different level...not on an ego driven level, but on one that you wish to shout out...''No, that isn't Catholicism!''

Likewise, the violence we see throughout the middle east...by horrifying extremist groups...I want to shout out...''No, that isn't Islam!''

I'm not so much interested in support, as much as I just dislike people believing falsehoods about a religion. The message has been tainted, and it is that tainted message that unfortunately, many around the world, especially in the west...are viewing as the REAL message.

I believe that religion and government should be separate, and that Sharia law wasn't for this time. But, this is my opinion.

 

[Sees]

As much as I like some of the beautiful expressions of Islam and so many Muslims themselves...tolerance doesn't extend both ways. There is a difference between religions of the Book and cultural/ancestral polytheistic traditions like mine and pretty much all from around the world. The shifting amounts of tolerance historically for Jews and Christians and for their religion, just didn't apply to pagan folks and our religions.

There is also a whole other Islam outside of the West and internet realms that is much less apologetic and far more numerous. The kind that doesn't just think and speak bad of other religious traditions but uses active force, past and present.

Candy and kisses views on Islam are no more one-sided than the violent, extremist versions - and that's going all the way back to Muhammad's time. Pre-Islamic pagan traditions had a gun to the head and only in the West and on the internet do Muslims collectively even think of sugarcoating it. It was/is seen as a very good thing and for the glory of God.

The ability for religious traditions to produce or assist in a high percentage of good, righteous, etc. folks compared to hostile, intolerant, etc. folks most definitely should be considered and looked at. Religion whether man-made or heaven-sent is to serve and nourish people, to guide and enrich lives.

Islam united the Arabic peoples but how will we judge it's historical impact on the other children of the world?

In a world becoming smaller and smaller, freedom to be diverse and ability to initiate change is more important than ever. How does Islam rank in those categories?

 

[Deidre]

As much as I like some of the beautiful expressions of Islam and so many Muslims themselves...tolerance doesn't extend both ways. There is a difference between religions of the Book and cultural/ancestral polytheistic traditions like mine and pretty much all from around the world. The shifting amounts of tolerance historically for Jews and Christians and for their religion, just didn't apply to pagan folks and our religions.

There is also a whole other Islam outside of the West and internet realms that is much less apologetic and far more numerous. The kind that doesn't just think and speak bad of other religious traditions but uses active force, past and present.

Candy and kisses views on Islam are no more one-sided than the violent, extremist versions - and that's going all the way back to Muhammad's time. Pre-Islamic pagan traditions had a gun to the head and only in the West and on the internet do Muslims collectively even think of sugarcoating it. It was/is seen as a very good thing and for the glory of God.

The ability for religious traditions to produce or assist in a high percentage of good, righteous, etc. folks compared to hostile, intolerant, etc. folks most definitely should be considered and looked at. Religion whether man-made or heaven-sent is to serve and nourish people, to guide and enrich lives.

Islam united the Arabic peoples but how will we judge it's historical impact on the other children of the world?

In a world becoming smaller and smaller, freedom to be diverse and ability to initiate change is more important than ever. How does Islam rank in those categories?

Hai Sees, thanks for this. Would you say that the opinions are 'fair' then? Meaning, that people have no other option than to look at how Islam is being carried out by many Muslims, globally? (I'm trying to understand where you're coming from is all)

 

[Deidre]

Wow. It took a grand total of 19 posts to prove her point.

I read that comment, and it is near verbatim as to what one of my offline friends expressed to me, recently. I'm not so naïve to not understand her sentiment, nor should I wither like a tissue paper. lol What hurts with friends, is that I'm still me...no matter if I like certain aspects of a religion or not, I'm still me.

I had someone say to me recently that he has seen religion change people for the worse...and I can believe that.

 

[Deidre]

I wholly support your decision to explore Islam and can only congratulate you on going against the majority opinion as that is not easy. I don't know what you'll find out, but I hope it will be a worthwhile experience.



no. things won't change unless you speak out- but it depends on whether the person is really willing to listen to a different point of view. And that's the issue. most people hear without really listening and talk without knowing what they're saying. I think Buddhists call it mindfulness.

(p.s. one of the admins is encouraging people to change their avatar to a Borg, so it's kind of going round at the moment.)

Borgism is so very appealing, I too converted today. I'm still waiting though for someone to tell me what my reward is for my obedience!


I appreciate your sentiments. I wish there wasn't all this division, strife, and problems from and within religion. Religion does breed some of that, for sure. To me, religion should be a private thing, I choose to view a god in my own way, and if my own views resonate with a particular faith, what harm is this? But, the problem is...perhaps, Sharia Law, mainly. It is hard to get around that it was designed to help govern a newly forming Muslim community at one time, and it is always the thing that comes up when people learn that a non-Muslim is interested in Islam.

 

[JayJayDee]

Because obeying the "commands of God" means going from door to door preaching hateful, homophobic, and anti-scientific beliefs, eh?

Funny, I don't recall ever doing that. We have no hateful beliefs...that is why we preach "good news".

We do not condemn homosexuals but tell people about God's standards with regard to all immoral sexual activity, regardless of gender. There is a higher purpose for sexual activity....the fact that it is pleasurable is a bonus. It was designed to produce children in a committed family relationship. Just because humans want to change the rules, doesn't mean that the Creator approves. He has his laws and if you break them there is a penalty, just like the laws of the land.

"Anti-scientific" is a bit of a joke. God invented the science that educators promote and the scientific community, even though they would like to eliminate a Creator altogether, have never proved that he doesn't exist. Even staunch evolutionists will shy away from the "how did life originate?" topic because they have no answers. They have conjecture and educated guessing, but nothing more concrete than that.

Just because the "science" mentioned in the Bible is simple, doesn't make it wrong.

For example....Job 26:7..."God stretches the northern sky over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing."

Isaiah 40:22..."God sits above the circle of the earth.The people below seem like grasshoppers to him!"

How did Job and Isaiah know these things, especially in view of the superstitious attitudes prevailing at the time?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

I would never have known how Islam is viewed in the states, until I have taken an interest in it myself, and have shared that with a few of my offline friends, and online ones, as well. I'm not expecting anyone to support my decision to explore Islam, but I'm sadly surprised by the negative comments, and nasty remarks actually, by some.

To people who suffer from persecution of any type because of your faith, giving you a hug here.

I sometimes don't know how to answer people when they offer nasty remarks about Islam, I try my best to share what the faith is actually about, but they don't want to listen. Is it best to just stay quiet? Idk. I never dealt with this really, as a Christian. (except many mock Christians, I know)

Prophet Muhammad pbuh didnt speak from his own desires when he said the nations will attack muslims for their religion just like hungry people attacks food.
It is characteristic of the Straight Path that christians, jews, atheists , apostates, and polytheists are united against Islam.

 

[nazz]

Borgism is so very appealing, I too converted today. I'm still waiting though for someone to tell me what my reward is for my obedience!


I appreciate your sentiments. I wish there wasn't all this division, strife, and problems from and within religion. Religion does breed some of that, for sure. To me, religion should be a private thing, I choose to view a god in my own way, and if my own views resonate with a particular faith, what harm is this? But, the problem is...perhaps, Sharia Law, mainly. It is hard to get around that it was designed to help govern a newly forming Muslim community at one time, and it is always the thing that comes up when people learn that a non-Muslim is interested in Islam.

It would not be unfair to say that Sharia IS Islam in the same way that Torah is Judaism. Both faiths are law-centric, orthopractic. You can't really separate the legal system from the religion. It's the mystical branches of each, sufism and hasidism respectively, that focus on the more spiritual, esoteric aspects. But even they, in their original forms anyway, still recognize the need for law.

 

[Debater Slayer]

As much as I like some of the beautiful expressions of Islam and so many Muslims themselves...tolerance doesn't extend both ways. There is a difference between religions of the Book and cultural/ancestral polytheistic traditions like mine and pretty much all from around the world. The shifting amounts of tolerance historically for Jews and Christians and for their religion, just didn't apply to pagan folks and our religions.

There is also a whole other Islam outside of the West and internet realms that is much less apologetic and far more numerous. The kind that doesn't just think and speak bad of other religious traditions but uses active force, past and present.

Candy and kisses views on Islam are no more one-sided than the violent, extremist versions - and that's going all the way back to Muhammad's time. Pre-Islamic pagan traditions had a gun to the head and only in the West and on the internet do Muslims collectively even think of sugarcoating it. It was/is seen as a very good thing and for the glory of God.

The ability for religious traditions to produce or assist in a high percentage of good, righteous, etc. folks compared to hostile, intolerant, etc. folks most definitely should be considered and looked at. Religion whether man-made or heaven-sent is to serve and nourish people, to guide and enrich lives.

Islam united the Arabic peoples but how will we judge it's historical impact on the other children of the world?

In a world becoming smaller and smaller, freedom to be diverse and ability to initiate change is more important than ever. How does Islam rank in those categories?

Absolutely excellent.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I would argue that the Catholics are responsible for more heart-ache and death if you're going to talk about "scope". What their policies have done in Africa are going to be felt for decades, perhaps centuries. However, I'll grant you Jews & Pagans. Too small to really be making that massive a difference. Not on the ISIS and Vatican scale, anyway.

That's a load of crap. The Church's teachings on sexual morality are not responsible for the HIV/AIDS epidemic in Sub-Saharan Africa. In fact, the Church provides about 25% of all of HIV/AIDS treatment around the globe, according to UNAIDS. The HIV/AIDS crisis in Africa is made worse by the social structures and cultures of the countries afflicted with it. Many of those cultures have a very liberal attitude towards sex, involving multiple sexual partners, sex outside of marriage, prostitution and general non-monogamy. There is also superstitious beliefs, especially in South Africa, about how sex with a virgin will cure you of HIV/AIDS. Poverty, lack of education, stigma and suspicious attitudes towards Western medicine all add to the factors that make it the huge problem that it is. Sorry, but that "blame the Church" stupidity won't fly with me. Actually, the African cultures with the most conservative views towards sex (North Africa and the Horn of Africa) have the lowest rates of HIV/AIDS infection on the continent.

HIV/AIDS in Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, this is all off-topic. Every time someone brings up the very serious problems with Islam, liberal PC types always deflect and bring up issues in other religions as if they're on par. Stop it and stick to the issue at hand.

 

[Deidre]

I'm sorry to hear that people aren't supporting your decision to explore Islam more. I think knowing more about various worldviews is useful to broaden one's understanding of others and the beliefs they hold.

I constantly hear nasty comments about non-belief, so I can relate to feeling alone in one's views among a given community or social circle. I think one important thing to point out, however, is that some negative comments about certain religious ideas are spot on and don't necessarily stem from hatred of religious people.

Best of luck with your study. Hug returned.

*hugs*

haha I laughed while reading this, because yes...I was told nasty comments when I left Christianity, and told people I felt that I best identified as an atheist.

I'm forever the odd girl out.

Very good point, some comments about religion are true. Is a religion only as 'good' as those carrying it out? :/

 

[Jumi]

Well you know how to pick your beliefs. First you pick atheism that's probably the most unfairly hated view throughout history and now you go with Islam. At least you'll develop a thick skin if you haven't already. Good luck with your searches!

 

[Debater Slayer]

Funny, I don't recall ever doing that. We have no hateful beliefs...that is why we preach "good news".

Numerous posts you yourself have made on this forum tell me otherwise. Perhaps it is only that you don't think your beliefs are hateful, but that doesn't mean they actually aren't.

We do not condemn homosexuals but tell people about God's standards with regard to all immoral sexual activity, regardless of gender. There is a higher purpose for sexual activity....the fact that it is pleasurable is a bonus. It was designed to produce children in a committed family relationship. Just because humans want to change the rules, doesn't mean that the Creator approves. He has his laws and if you break them there is a penalty, just like the laws of the land.

"Anti-scientific" is a bit of a joke. God invented the science that educators promote and the scientific community, even though they would like to eliminate a Creator altogether, have never proved that he doesn't exist. Even staunch evolutionists will shy away from the "how did life originate?" topic because they have no answers. They have conjecture and educated guessing, but nothing more concrete than that.

Just because the "science" mentioned in the Bible is simple, doesn't make it wrong.

For example....Job 26:7..."God stretches the northern sky over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing."

Isaiah 40:22..."God sits above the circle of the earth.The people below seem like grasshoppers to him!"

How did Job and Isaiah know these things, especially in view of the superstitious attitudes prevailing at the time?

I'm not going to hijack someone's thread to argue with you, as much as I'd like to refute the above.

Thanks for proving my point though.

 

[Sees]

The world and it's various religious traditions didn't descend upon Arabian lands trying to purge Islam from existence. Only locals to Muhammad criticized and made life hard on him and his followers. The tribes didn't want one all-powerful earthly or heavenly ruler. Did their suspicions pan out? After Medina and Mecca were secured the other areas didn't get smiley-faced door to door sales pitches and pamphlets, let alone the rest of the region and Africa's north coast, Spain, India, etc.

Prophet Muhammad pbuh didnt speak from his own desires when he said the nations will attack muslims for their religion just like hungry people attacks food.
It is characteristic of the Straight Path that christians, jews, atheists , apostates, and polytheists are united against Islam.

 

[Deidre]

Well you know how to pick your beliefs. First you pick atheism that's probably the most unfairly hated view throughout history and now you go with Islam. At least you'll develop a thick skin if you haven't already. Good luck with your searches!

LOL!
As a kid, I grew up in a strict Catholic home. And I once had ''opinions'' about Muslims and atheists...and when you find yourself attracted to other schools of thought, you look back at your own bigoted ways and think...damn, I misjudged these people.

Irony/10 ^_^

 

[JayJayDee]

Numerous posts you yourself have made on this forum tell me otherwise. Perhaps it is only that you don't think your beliefs are hateful, but that doesn't mean they actually aren't.

And just because a rule curbs a person's freedom to do as they wish, doesn't make it wrong either. God hates only what is evil. We are told to hate evil too...some people love it. Some people see evil as good. It all depends on your point of view.

I'm not going to hijack someone's thread to argue with you, as much as I'd like to refute the above.

Thanks for proving my point though.

Thanks for proving mine.

 

[JayJayDee]

LOL!
As a kid, I grew up in a strict Catholic home. And I once had ''opinions'' about Muslims and atheists...and when you find yourself attracted to other schools of thought, you look back at your own bigoted ways and think...damn, I misjudged these people.

Irony/10 ^_^

Oh yes!!!!

Just as Jesus warned...his followers would be hated and persecuted...not for their political stance or their religious label, but because of doing and being what Christ was....different!!!!

 

[Jumi]

Just as Jesus warned...his followers would be hated and persecuted...not for their political stance or their religious label, but because of doing and being what Christ was....different!!!!

I guess it's a prophecy that fulfills itself no matter what your beliefs are if they are somewhat different to the mainstream in your society.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Prophet Muhammad pbuh didnt speak from his own desires when he said the nations will attack muslims for their religion just like hungry people attacks food.
It is characteristic of the Straight Path that christians, jews, atheists , apostates, and polytheists are united against Islam.

Well, maybe if you types would stop making war on us, we wouldn't have much of an issue with you.