Unforgivable sin?

[angellous_evangellous]

Does this paining communicate truth because of its subject or through its unparralled beauty?

 

[logician]

"Many" "Many'" "Many"

Repeatedly Scripture says Christ death covers "many" [Matt 20:28].
Jesus died for all, but since all do not want to be humble meek and rather practice wickedness [Psalm 92:7], there reaches a cut off point so that is why Scriptures say many and not all. It does not say nothing or no one.
2nd Peter 3:9 b says God does not want any to perish, but all to repent.

This statement is totally illogical, in that 1) There a billions of people that could not possibly have ever heard the message of the supposed Christ, or
2} There are billions of people that live in cultures where other religions are much more prominent and socially acceptable.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

This statement is totally illogical, in that 1) There a billions of people that could not possibly have ever heard the message of the supposed Christ, or
2} There are billions of people that live in cultures where other religions are much more prominent and socially acceptable.

Your refute is totally illogical, given that there is no requirement from either verse that -

1) One needs to hear the "supposed message of Christ" in order to repent

2) One cannot follow any other religion and live a righteous life before God

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I have asked multiple times for alternative explanations for the seemingly clear messages offered by those gospel passages, and none have yet been offered.

I offered one but you were to busy debating your daddy to reply.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I offered one but you were to busy debating your daddy to reply.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I offered one but you were to busy debating your daddy to reply.

Best.

Post.

Ever.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This statement is totally illogical, in that 1) There a billions of people that could not possibly have ever heard the message of the supposed Christ, or
2} There are billions of people that live in cultures where other religions are much more prominent and socially acceptable.

Because billions could not possibly ever heard the message of Christ that is why Jesus ransom covers 'many'. What does Romans 6:7 say?____________

Yes, prominent and socially acceptable religions, but does not mean they believe what Jesus taught. The dead are in God's hands. Because of the living, those alive on earth, are the ones that need to hear of Matthew 24:14 before Jesus takes the action of Matthew 25:32.

All nations before the time of Matt 25:32 will have the opportunity to hear and although nations profess as a national group not to follow Christ, there are individuals out of all tribes, people's and tongues or languages that are Christian. For example there are Christians living in Israel.
So Christians today comprise, or make up, a 'spiritual nation' and not fleshly. No physical borders separate their serving the God of the Bible.
-Rev 7:9,10,14

 

[logician]

Because billions could not possibly ever heard the message of Christ that is why Jesus ransom covers 'many'. What does Romans 6:7 say?____________

Yes, prominent and socially acceptable religions, but does not mean they believe what Jesus taught. The dead are in God's hands. Because of the living, those alive on earth, are the ones that need to hear of Matthew 24:14 before Jesus takes the action of Matthew 25:32.

All nations before the time of Matt 25:32 will have the opportunity to hear and although nations profess as a national group not to follow Christ, there are individuals out of all tribes, people's and tongues or languages that are Christian. For example there are Christians living in Israel.
So Christians today comprise, or make up, a 'spiritual nation' and not fleshly. No physical borders separate their serving the God of the Bible.
-Rev 7:9,10,14

I bet I've heard more preachin than anyone on this board. I've heard it all before, and have come to the conclusion that there is no logic in it, nor any evidence to support it.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That's like rejecting scientific findings based on this:

Does this painting [Monet] contain or communicate truth?
Is there any other painter who can communicate truth, inspiring our human experession and explaining our human condition?

Love that ^above^ painting. Thanks for posting it.
Does nature's picture contain or communicate inspiring truth ?

We can see that in the creation of coming spring mornings is that each one is original in its own poetic way. Isn't it good that we do not need to assist at the sun's rising? We only need to be present at it!

From moist ground our golden sun will draw up from mist-like vapor the 'morning seeds' that will have all the needed life in them that will make the day bloom.

Nature has not just a picture but its own voice. We are gifted with ears.
Isn't nature's pictures and voice encouraging such as beautiful sounds from a running brook? Or stream flowing into stream? Or water gurgling under a foot bridge? Nature is not just picture and sound but performing art. We have sight and hearing to appreciate seeing and hearing the birds.

Each and every day will end only to make room for the next. Our future, when seen as progressive and purposeful, combined with nature's beauty has many phases to explore. Creation has many shows to put on for us. Much time can not be given to each 'new picture' as it is being painted for us with all the awesome variations of the imperceptively changing day's light,
just as the 'Greatest Artist' so chooses for us.

The 'Greatest Artist' also uses word pictures as conveyed through his Son to help us understand the human condition, and what a lasting beautiful future there is for mankind. -Micah 4:3,4.

The stars are now lit, so until tomorrow........

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Does this paining communicate truth because of its subject or through its unparralled beauty?

Looks as if the church fathers made someone to paint in awkward positions.
Perhaps they did that by tying a person up there, and withholding food from them, unless they co-operated with those church powers.
What a far cry from the assignment that Jesus gave at Matthew 24:14 just to inform others about the Good News of God's kingdom, or royal government, will bring Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.

How true the words of Acts [20:29,30] that wolf-like clergy would come in sheep's clothing just to fleece the flock.

 

[Buttercup]

Does this paining communicate truth because of its subject or through its unparralled beauty?

I was there in October 2009. Definitely unparalleled beauty.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Perhaps they did that by tying a person up there, and withholding food from them, unless they co-operated with those church powers.

My goodness.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

My goodness.

Aren't Christians supposed to walk by faith and not by sight ?_________
2nd Cor. 5:7

 

[Thesavorofpan]

• LUKE 12:10, "And everyone that says a word against the Son of Man, that will be forgiven; But he that blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
• MARK 3:29, "Whoever blasphemes against The Holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of everlasting sin."
• MATTHEW 12: 31-32 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come".

I hereby renounce the holy spirit, I deny it's existence and were I find that it did exist, I would do what I could to destroy it..


Am I, according to what the bible teaches, now barred from ever entering heaven?

Well to commit this sin, you'll have to be once saved filled with the holy ghost, than black side so much that you commit sins to the level to say as Adolf Hitler. Blasphemy against the Holy ghost is your normal angry fist shake at God. Also another Unforgivable sin would be suicide taking a life and your dead so you can't ask for forgiveness.

So unless you have been filled with the holy ghost speaking in tongues and then leave God and commit an Adolf Hitler level amount of sin then you would have committed an unforgivable sin.

But that's just my two cents.

 

[logician]

There really is no such thing as "sin", which is a transgression against a supposed god, since there is no god.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

There really is no such thing as "sin", which is a transgression against a supposed god, since there is no god.

Well, I share this perspective. The idea of an external deity of any sort is highly unlikely in my opinion, and to me would prove unimportant even if it were to be true.

Within christian scripture however, and not even the peripheral stuff that sometimes gets written off but right there in the core gospels it states EXPLICITLY that blaspheming against the holy spirit is an unforgivable sin. Not only is it written explicitly, but in 3 different places worded 3 different ways.

This thread was a thought experiment to demonstrate how eisegesis, or reading meaning INTO text (rather than taking meaning from text) is a mainstay of modern christians. I would say it worked rather well, wouldn't you?

 

[dogsgod]

Updated by Bansky

 

[Falvlun]

Your refute is totally illogical, given that there is no requirement from either verse that -

1) One needs to hear the "supposed message of Christ" in order to repent

2) One cannot follow any other religion and live a righteous life before God

So are you saying that Christianity allows people to be saved even if they never explicitly accept Jesus Christ, or become a Christian? That basically you just need to be a good person? How does this gel with the whole "not by works of righteousness, lest any man should boast" sort of thing? Genuinely curious here, since logician brought up the two things that destroyed my faith-- namely, that Christianity is fundamentally unfair (if explicit acceptance of Christ is required for forgiveness).


Also, in regards to the OP:
Are you saying that there really is no unforgivable sin?

 

[Thesavorofpan]

Within christian scripture however, and not even the peripheral stuff that sometimes gets written off but right there in the core gospels it states EXPLICITLY that blaspheming against the holy spirit is an unforgivable sin. Not only is it written explicitly, but in 3 different places worded 3 different ways.

Yes it's an unforgivable sin, but it is near to impossible to commit even if that said person was to commit that person would be to far gone to even realized that he committed that sin.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

So are you saying that Christianity allows people to be saved even if they never explicitly accept Jesus Christ, or become a Christian? That basically you just need to be a good person? How does this gel with the whole "not by works of righteousness, lest any man should boast" sort of thing? Genuinely curious here, since logician brought up the two things that destroyed my faith-- namely, that Christianity is fundamentally unfair (if explicit acceptance of Christ is required for forgiveness).


Also, in regards to the OP:
Are you saying that there really is no unforgivable sin?

That's not what he said. What he said was.

1. Your repentance would mean nothing if you didn't know Jesus or the reason why you have to repent

2. That if you serve any other God other than Jesus, you will die in your sins.