Unintelligent Design

[Robert.Evans]

So God can evolve from not existing at all to forming everything we know?

In short, yes.

So something can come from nothing? If something can come from nothing, why would anyone need to make all we know?

Not from nothing. Cause and effect. We have to have something to gain something. Because everything we know, like you for example, wish to be.

How do you think this God evolved? Blind Chance? Luck?

From its own basic qualities, within its own consciousness, as your consciousness does. One might call it luck, but it would not be fitting as there was nothing to compare it with.

Obviously any sort of evolving God is doing so under the direction of an even higher intelligent designer, forever.

No.

 

[Robert.Evans]

If Einstein made a population of animals that needlessly suffers many diseases, for no particular reason, I'd think Einstein would be really unintelligent.

I don't think so. He might be called cruel and sadistic though. Yet I take your point. I think you have the wrong concept of God.

But knowing now that God makes mistakes, there would be no reason to view such a being as admirable, let alone stuff like all-knowing, which religious hold to be more or less canon.

It would depend on what reflection of God you are speaking of when you say he makes mistakes and what you mean by mistake. However, the Ultimate is complete and perfect in every way. That is the one we don't know. The other one is us, as we are it. Can you now see why we are in such a mess?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I am asking if intelligence is not used in creation, then it must be luck. Yes or no.

False dichotomy, not a valid question.

 

[dust1n]

In short, yes.

Not from nothing. Cause and effect. We have to have something to gain something. Because everything we know, like you for example, wish to be.

But you just said God evolved from nothing. When god started from Nothing and become Something, what cause was there for this effect?

From its own basic qualities, within its own consciousness, as your consciousness does. One might call it luck, but it would not be fitting as there was nothing to compare it with.

But the funny thing about my evolving consciousness is that it started at birth. How did God's start?

No.

Sorry, if makes no sense to me that biological evolution needs a designer, but a designer also evolves without the need of a designer. Either evolution requires a designer or it doesn't...

 

[Robert.Evans]

Ever see an intelligent designer do it? Nope.

And I repeat, every seen luck do it? Nope.

 

[Robert.Evans]

But you just said God evolved from nothing. When god started from Nothing and become Something, what cause was there for this effect?

Nothing in the sense that we think of. There has to be something, I have already told you that.

But the funny thing about my evolving consciousness is that it started at birth. How did God's start?

The same.

Sorry, if makes no sense to me that biological evolution needs a designer, but a designer also evolves without the need of a designer. Either evolution requires a designer or it doesn't...

Biological evolution does not need a designer. It needs Self. When it has that, it looks for that.
How does life appear on this planet? No one is sure yet. Evolution cannot work then until life appears. Do you see now?

 

[dust1n]

I don't think so. He might be called cruel and sadistic though. Yet I take your point. I think you have the wrong concept of God.

If the God doesn't care what happens to humans why would I ever bother caring about such a God?

It would depend on what reflection of God you are speaking of when you say he makes mistakes and what you mean by mistake. However, the Ultimate is complete and perfect in every way. That is the one we don't know. The other one is us, as we are it. Can you now see why we are in such a mess?

A mistake, as in an unintended outcome. God makes them? Then no reason to trust such a being, let alone any better than humans in their intelligence and reasoning.

 

[dust1n]

And I repeat, every seen luck do it? Nope.

Right, which means at best, a belief in God has as much evidence as a belief in luck.

 

[dust1n]

Nothing in the sense that we think of. There has to be something, I have already told you that.

I'm sorry... what other sense of nothing is there? I'm only familiar with one sense, that being the absence of anything. How did God evolve from nothing is no thing can come from nothing?

The same.

So God has parents too? Aren't they more God like than God himself then?

Biological evolution does not need a designer. It needs Self. When it has that, it looks for that.
How does life appear on this planet? No one is sure yet.

Huh? What is Self and why is it necessary for E. coli to get new traits after random mutations?

Evolution cannot work then until life appears. Do you see now?

Sure. No reason to think a God or designer is necessary from inorganic matter to become organic matter. Doesn't mean it's "evolution." It could be a number of potential things.

 

[Robert.Evans]

If the God doesn't care what happens to humans why would I ever bother caring about such a God?



A mistake, as in an unintended outcome. God makes them? Then no reason to trust such a being, let alone any better than humans in their intelligence and reasoning.

What makes you think he does not care? I think you have the wrong concept again.
Everything wishes to live, the good child and the naughty child.

Intended??? No, evolving conciousness. All wishes to live. It is what it is. We create God as we are part of that consciousness, then he gives us this physical realm to express ourselves in, which ultimately frees us. Then we complain. That is what children do to their parents. That is why we do it. God is a Fractal.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Right, which means at best, a belief in God has as much evidence as a belief in luck.

No, belief in God is proved by the believer. We do not, even if we think we do, believe of our own doing. Believers are living witnesses, however good or bad they might be at it or as individuals.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I'm sorry... what other sense of nothing is there? I'm only familiar with one sense, that being the absence of anything. How did God evolve from nothing is no thing can come from nothing?



So God has parents too? Aren't they more God like than God himself then?



Huh? What is Self and why is it necessary for E. coli to get new traits after random mutations?



Sure. No reason to think a God or designer is necessary from inorganic matter to become organic matter. Doesn't mean it's "evolution." It could be a number of potential things.

There is an Existence, the Ultimate. It evolves consciousness. That is the time when we would say God.

To explain something that just "IS" is beyond our comprehension. We explain after.
Everything evolves as consciousness evolves, thoughts evolve- thoughts become physical.
Everything wishes to live. We started this good and evil. Consciousnes expressed in physical terms.
If not, you are back to luck again, and that is stupid.

 

[dust1n]

What makes you think he does not care? I think you have the wrong concept again.
Everything wishes to live, the good child and the naughty child.

Well, you've yet to provide a concept so, I have to sit here and figure it out.

You said God evolved from nothing and also makes mistakes. If he makes mistakes, then he's not all knowing. What more is their to say? Either God is too dumb to help me out, even though he wants to. Or God is smart enough to do so, but doesn't care enough to help me out. Either that or God is smart enough and really cares and wants to help out but still doesn't do it for yet some other excuse.

Intended??? No, evolving conciousness. All wishes to live. It is what it is. We create God as we are part of that consciousness, then he gives us this physical realm to express ourselves in, which ultimately frees us. Then we complain. That is what children do to their parents. That is why we do it. God is a Fractal.

So if God is just an evolving conscious like me, than no one has any reason to find such a being worthy of attention, let alone worship. The idea that our consciousnesses all existed, then we created God, then God created the world, then we complain about... I have no reason to take it seriously. It's all made up, and can't be confirmed nor denied.

 

[dust1n]

No, belief in God is proved by the believer. We do not, even if we think we do, believe of our own doing. Believers are living witnesses, however good or bad they might be at it or as individuals.

Belief in luck is proved by the believer. We do not, even if we think we do, believe of our design. Believers to luck are living witnesses, however good or bad they might be at it.

So yeah, belief in God is still, at best, as believable as random luck. All it takes is belief, apparently.

 

[dust1n]

There is an Existence, the Ultimate. It evolves consciousness. That is the time when we would say God.

So, God doesn't exist yet.

To explain something that just "IS" is beyond our comprehension. We explain after.
Everything evolves as consciousness evolves, thoughts evolve- thoughts become physical.
Everything wishes to live. We started this good and evil. Consciousnes expressed in physical terms.
If not, you are back to luck again, and that is stupid.

EDIT: Nvm, I see what you are saying.

To explain something that just "evolves" from "nothing" is beyond our comprehension... Nothing you state about it can be shown to be true.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Well, you've yet to provide a concept so, I have to sit here and figure it out.

You said God evolved from nothing and also makes mistakes. If he makes mistakes, then he's not all knowing. What more is their to say? Either God is too dumb to help me out, even though he wants to. Or God is smart enough to do so, but doesn't care enough to help me out. Either that or God is smart enough and really cares and wants to help out but still doesn't do it for yet some other excuse.



So if God is just an evolving conscious like me, than no one has any reason to find such a being worthy of attention, let alone worship. The idea that our consciousnesses all existed, then we created God, then God created the world, then we complain about... I have no reason to take it seriously. It's all made up, and can't be confirmed nor denied.

You seem to be taking it rather seriously to me! Perhaps only to the point that you can say what you think and not learn a thing. Luck will not do, never will./

 

[dust1n]

You seem to be taking it rather seriously to me! Perhaps only to the point that you can say what you think and not learn a thing. Luck will not do, never will./

Right. Design will not do, never will...

 

[Robert.Evans]

So, God doesn't exist yet.



EDIT: Nvm, I see what you are saying.

To explain something that just "evolves" from "nothing" is beyond our comprehension... Nothing you state about it can be shown to be true.

God evolves.
We are part of God.
There is One consciousness.
There is separation in that consciousness.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Right. Design will not do, never will...

Why not?

 

[dust1n]

"Ever seen luck create a universe?Nope."

God evolves.

Ever seen it? Nope.

We are part of God.

Ever seen it? Nope.

There is One consciousness

Ever seen it? Nope,
.

There is separation in that consciousness.

...