Universal Salvation

[Quiddity]

something that i personally can't help but see in the biblical depiction of 'the lord, our father'.

I disagree. I think what you are seeing in that case is parents using such stories for their benefit. Not necessarily because that particular denomination encouraged it.

 

[Green Gaia]

What if that is what works for some?
I mean you and I are both parents and it would be nice if all we had to do was talk kindly and they would listen. But we don't, do we? We say BOOOOOOOOO, and sometimes it works.

Yeah, it works, but is the real lesson taught? Do they become better people for being scared of their parents?

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

I think I already stated that I do not believe in places of damnation or salvation. So I can't answer that.

I mean if you did.

I do know that what is important is this life. Our incentive should be, not some possible reward after we die, but ro live a good and productive life that will result in a more sane, peaceful, and just world than the one we have at present, and to pass on a better world to succeeding generations.

What's important in this life is teaching God's word to those around me, and helping other find Christ, and be the best Christian I can be.

How do you know beyond what someone else has told you?

I know what the Bible has told me. And, based on the Word of God, I can conclude that Heaven would be preferable to Hell.

 

[SoyLeche]

If you don't believe that God's real, how could you believe he's a jerk.......???

Where have I ever said that I don't think that God is real? I know that he is real - he's just not the jerk you think him to be.

 

[d.]

I'm guessing this comes, albeit mistakenly, from things like Buddhism's concept of 'no-independent-arising'. It might be a response to Tao-Chia type thinking as expressed by Wei Wu Wei (he didn't believe in free will or determinism as having any validity, no object-subject distinction in the non-dual mind).

mistakenly, exactly.

 

[Booko]

I didn't take my interpretaion of Hell as a metaphor. I think it is very real.

Metaphor isn't the same as not real. It's just an indirect way of expressing something that is very real.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

Where have I ever said that I don't think that God is real?

Yeah, for some odd reason when I read this in your former post:

Good thing I don't believe that about Him.

I thought it said "good thing I don't believe in Him". Sorry.

 

[Quiddity]

Yeah, it works, but is the real lesson taught? Do they become better people for being scared of their parents?

I can go both ways. It did for me and it has for many loving people in this planet that had strict parents. It all depends on the child.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

he's just not the jerk you think him to be.

And I don't think God's a jerk.

 

[Quiddity]

Metaphor isn't the same as not real. It's just an indirect way of expressing something that is very real.

Ah ok, I gotcha. I misunderstood what you meant.

 

[d.]

I disagree. I think what you are seeing in that case is parents using such stories for their benefit. Not necessarily because that particular denomination encouraged it.

what i'm trying to say is i get the notion that god in the bible fit the writers idea of a strong ruler, patriarch and head of the family.

 

[Katzpur]

He loves them just the same. Just like he loves the ones who knew him and turned away. I just believe that you must believe in Him to be saved. That's what he tell his. You are dealing entirely in guesswork and assumptions, and I am dealing only in what I read in my Bible.

What? I am dealing with the facts. Not everybody who has lived on this earth has had the same opportunity to accept Christ as you have. All I want to know is what makes you so special to God that He would have given you the chance to chose for yourself and simply comdemned billions to an eternity in Hell due to the misfortune of having been born in the wrong place at the wrong time. You cannot possibly deny that these people exist. I just want to be able to understand why God picked you instead of them. Are you just inately more deserving of His love, or what?

 

[SoyLeche]

And I don't think God's a jerk.

You must not think that he's very nice if he's going to condemn the LARGE majority of his children to an eternity of torment because they were born in the wrong part of the world at the wrong time.

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

God sent his love down to us. if we do not send this love back, then what purpose do we have? the only place we have to go is into nothingness of the darkness of hell.

God is loving, but if that love is not returned you have no reason forr heaven

 

[Green Gaia]

I know what the Bible has told me.

So this is based on your interpretation of the Bible.

 

[d.]

You must not think that he's very nice if he's going to condemn the LARGE majority of his children to an eternity of torment because they were born in the wrong part of the world at the wrong time.

seems like a technicality, doesn't it? :flower:

 

[Booko]

Ah ok, I gotcha. I misunderstood what you meant.

wow, this thread is *really* moving fast! It wasn't me who said it...I was just jumping in, as usual.

I'm used to seeing people react to metaphors as if somehow that made the thing the metaphor refers to as "not real."

As for hell, while I don't believe there's a geographical place, or that it's filled with fire, I do believe there are negative consequences for our bad actions in this life, and it would be a grave mistake to underestimate the consequences.

 

[Ody]

God sent his love down to us. if we do not send this love back, then what purpose do we have? the only place we have to go is into nothingness of the darkness of hell.

God is loving, but if that love is not returned you have no reason forr heaven

SO HE SENDS YOU TO HELL, ALL OVER A GRUDGE........
Great concept :biglaugh:

 

[Green Gaia]

I can go both ways. It did for me and it has for many loving people in this planet that had strict parents. It all depends on the child.

But isn't it preferable to teach with love rather than fear?

 

[Quiddity]

what i'm trying to say is i get the notion that god in the bible fit the writers idea of a strong ruler, patriarch and head of the family.

Well a weak ruler certainly doesn't sale, does it?
And the concept of a family is just straight out cool in my opinion.