Universal Salvation

[Quiddity]

But isn't it preferable to teach with love rather than fear?

Absolutely...That is certainly my first, second, and third options.

 

[lunamoth]

wow, this thread is *really* moving fast! It wasn't me who said it...I was just jumping in, as usual.

I'm used to seeing people react to metaphors as if somehow that made the thing the metaphor refers to as "not real."

As for hell, while I don't believe there's a geographical place, or that it's filled with fire, I do believe there are negative consequences for our bad actions in this life, and it would be a grave mistake to underestimate the consequences.

So, would you say then that Baha'is believe in hell in the afterlife, as a metaphor?

luna

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

SO HE SENDS YOU TO HELL, ALL OVER A GRUDGE........
Great concept :biglaugh:

if i was god i would do the same thing. who are you to judge god?

 

[Quiddity]

wow, this thread is *really* moving fast! It wasn't me who said it...I was just jumping in, as usual.

I'm used to seeing people react to metaphors as if somehow that made the thing the metaphor refers to as "not real."

As for hell, while I don't believe there's a geographical place, or that it's filled with fire, I do believe there are negative consequences for our bad actions in this life, and it would be a grave mistake to underestimate the consequences.

And that is what?
Do you call it a place or state or whatever?

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

god does what god wants, despite if it upsets you, thats kind of selfish

 

[Booko]

But isn't it preferable to teach with love rather than fear?

If I may jump in here before the next 20 posts appear in the next nanosecond (sheesh!) yes of course it's preferable. But the "stick" is as necessary as the "carrot." Sometimes the carrot doesn't work, and you have to resort to old-fashioned "no, or I'll put you in time out."

I don't believe the spiritual time-out is eternal, but it's bad enough that why minimize the consequences?

 

[Ody]

if i was god i would do the same thing. who are you to judge god?

I can judge a concept of G-d that makes him illogical. So you would doom another to eternal hell fire because they did not believe in you?

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

Not everybody who has lived on this earth has had the same opportunity to accept Christ as you have.

Yes. I understand that. I'm saying that you can't assume that these people are going to be saved.

I just want to be able to understand why God picked you instead of them. Are you just inately more deserving of His love, or what?

I was in the right place at the right time.

All I want to know is what makes you so special to God that He would have given you the chance to chose for yourself

It was simply God's will, I suppose. I'm no more special than the next person.

 

[Green Gaia]

Absolutely...That is certainly my first, second, and third options.

But it doesn't always work - why? Because we lack the tools and the patience to make it happen; we're not perfect. Presumably, God would be perfect and would not have to resort to fear and scaring his children into good behavior.

 

[Ody]

god does what god wants, despite if it upsets you, thats kind of selfish

IT IS SELFISH TO QUESTION WHY GANDHI GOES TO HELL? AFTER ALL GANDHI WAS NO CHRISTIAN! :banghead3

 

[lunamoth]

When Christ descended to the dead he offered salvation to everyone who came before him. What then will prevent Him from offering salvation to everyone who has not heard of Him, or everyone who up until the point of their death did not 'believe' in Him?

 

[d.]

Well a weak ruler certainly doesn't sale, does it?
And the concept of a family is just straight out cool in my opinion.

sure, there's nothing wrong with these concepts in themselves - except for the idea of the strong ruler(as opposed to for instance a representative of the people), but i guess that's a personal opinion i'll try to leave out of this thread.

the idea is the writers of the bible would think that 'a good leader' or 'head of the family' needed to rule in certain ways - for instance using threat of unpleasantries(hell) for the disobedient.

EDIT : and by 'unpleasantries' i don't mean 'go to your room. no TV for a week' - i mean real nastiness.

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

I can judge a concept of G-d that makes him illogical. So you would doom another to eternal hell fire because they did not believe in you?

who ever said they go to hell for not believing? i dont judge who does and doesnt go to hell. aparently you are, which i concider ignrance

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

im probably going to hell, and atleast im not afraid to say that im an extreme sinner and all i deserve is a slight mercy from god, or eternal darkness.

 

[SoyLeche]

When Christ descended to the dead he offered salvation to everyone who came before him. What then will prevent Him from offering salvation to everyone who has not heard of Him, or everyone who up until the point of their death did not 'believe' in Him?

Pretty close to the LDS stance on the issue.

 

[d.]

im probably going to hell,

why would you think that?

 

[Booko]

And that is what?
Do you call it a place or state or whatever?

Well, it still gets called "hell." Let's face it, it's a very workable well-known metaphor. Why change it?

"The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds. Firstly, the rewards and punishments of this life; secondly, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, 'Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.'"

(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 323)

 

[lunamoth]

Pretty close to the LDS stance on the issue.

Interesting. An fwiw when I refer to 'salvation' in the afterlife I mean reunion with God.

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

why would you think that?

because i realize the severity of the worlds condition

 

[lunamoth]

That is why Christ said, 'Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.'"

(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 323)

Yes, and when Christ said this He meant 'right now, in this life.' The Kingdom of God is within you.

lunamoth