'Unliftable Stone' Paradox - Logically flawed argument people make even today

[McBell]

The core issue here is the concept of gods who are unconceivable omnipotent mysteries while at the same time casually communicating and interacting with humans, to the point of having entirely human behaviours like being angry, getting tricked or wanting things. Put (very) simply, I would argue that you can have omnipotence or you can have God, but you can't have both.

Seems to me the core issue here is that in order for god to be omnipotent, there must be an awful lot of restrictions on the word omnipotent which makes it not be omnipotence.

So you in effect have omnipotent and god-limited-omnipotent....

 

[Heyo]

Omnipotence

Omnipotence means having the power to do anything that is logically possible.

Not for everyone. Some believers think that god is above logic.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Obviously it is possible..

How?
It is logically impossible to lift a stone that is "too heavy to lift".
..so the question is "Can G-d create something that is impossible for Him to lift?"
The answer is obvious, given His omnipotence.

 

[Ajax]

Brother. I do not believe Jesus was raised after his death. BUT, the claim of Christians if they do claim the resurrection it's "logically possible".

I urge you to just read up on analytical truths and logical impossibilities.

Until you (or anyone) can show that such a God exists and that you have perfect knowledge of God's attributes, everything you wrote in your OP is nonsensical and a waste of time.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Until you (or anyone) can show that such a God exists and that you have perfect knowledge of God's attributes, everything you wrote in your OP is nonsensical ...

Much intellectual effort has been invested in articulating and challenging the omnipotence paradox by some pretty impressive people. See, for example:

• Omnipotence
• Omnipotence Paradox

To dismiss either the effort or the people as nonsensical is, well, nonsensical.

... and a waste of time.

But it is you and I who have chosen to waste our time. Blaming someone else is silly.

 

[dybmh]

If it is in my power to do so.

Regards Tony

If there is someone on the forum who is, in my judgement, attacking the Torah and misrepresenting it, will you help me to negotiate with them? As a sort of neutral 3rd party? Not taking sides, but, to help us understand each other better and hopefully broker a compromise or mutual understanding?

 

[Ajax]

Much intellectual effort has been invested in articulating and challenging the omnipotence paradox by some pretty impressive people. See, for example:

• Omnipotence
• Omnipotence Paradox

To dismiss either the effort or the people as nonsensical is, well, nonsensical.



But it is you and I who have chosen to waste our time. Blaming someone else is silly.

It was meant that 'nonsensical' and 'a waste of time' apply to me. Perhaps I should have included the words "in my view".

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It's not about me believing in God doing miracles. A miracle by default is not a logical impossibility. You must try your best to do a simple research about logical impossibilities and physical impossibilities. It's imperative for epistemic responsibility.

Please do that. Your statement does not make any sense brother.

Possibility needs to be demonstrated. Can you demonstrate that miracles are possible as you claim?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Possibility needs to be demonstrated. Can you demonstrate that miracles are possible as you claim?

It depends on what you mean by the actual words for the bold one.
Do you mean in empirical terms as per science or do you mean in philosophical terms?

 

[firedragon]

You failed to mention if the omnipotence is fictitious

That's irrelevant. You are trying to derail the thread. This is an aunt sally attempt.

 

[firedragon]

I am not necessary disagreeing, but this is how you can draw a square circle:

How about a married bachelor? Is that a good enough example to explain what a contradiction is and and why it's by definitions?

Thanks.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Possibility needs to be demonstrated. Can you demonstrate that miracles are possible as you claim?

The possibility of something happening in the future, can’t be demonstrated in the present. For that, you have to wait.

 

[firedragon]

Possibility needs to be demonstrated. Can you demonstrate that miracles are possible as you claim?

Why do you use the word "possible"? I said "Logically Possible" or "Logical Impossibility". That has a specific meaning in philosophy. A logical possibility refers to a scenario or proposition that can exist or occur without leading to a contradiction in terms of logic.

 

[firedragon]

Not for everyone. Some believers think that god is above logic.

That's whataboutary.

 

[firedragon]

Until you (or anyone) can show that such a God exists

Not interested in strawman attempts.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It depends on what you mean by the actual words for the bold one.
Do you mean in empirical terms as per science or do you mean in philosophical terms?

either way.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

The possibility of something happening in the future, can’t be demonstrated in the present. For that, you have to wait.

I asked to demonstrate if miracles or possible. Not if future events are possible.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Why do you use the word "possible"? I said "Logically Possible" or "Logical Impossibility". That has a specific meaning in philosophy. A logical possibility refers to a scenario or proposition that can exist or occur without leading to a contradiction in terms of logic.

Can you demonstrate miracles are logically possible?

 

[firedragon]

Can you demonstrate miracles are logically possible?

Of course.

The concept of a miracle does not inherently involve a contradiction. Simple.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Can you demonstrate miracles are logically possible?

Well, what is a miracle?
Is it defined as something that cannot logically happen? No.

It is defined as something that happens that is 'out-of-the ordinary'.
..such as a person vanishing into thin air .. that is physically impossible, and not logically
impossible. There is no contradiction in terms.

A 'married bachelor' is not a physical impossibilty, but a logical one. The statement is not coherent..
It contradicts itself.