Shadow11
Member
Its a cartoon meant for people who have a sense of humor - thanks for judging me you know me so well.
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UPenn transgender swimmer continues dominant season with more record-breaking wins
- Thread starter We Never Know
- Start date
Its a cartoon meant for people who have a sense of humor - thanks for judging me you know me so well.
I asked you a specific question because I found the post to be a bit bizarre given the message in your avatar; there's no judging of you as a person in the question, nor am I interested in that.
The cartoon clearly has a meaning or there would be no reason to cite it in a discussion about trans issues. Being humorous and having a specific message are not mutually exclusive in the slightest. That's the core point of satire.
Shadow11
Member
I'm Dakota Ojibwe I have seen and experienced more abuse and discrimination then you could ever know I have been beaten for being an Indian - I'm not from India I'm Native American First Nations. You know nothing about abuse. The little comics humor I posted is nothing and I would do it again
That seems like an unrelated tangent. I have experienced discrimination and unsafety for over a decade as well. I don't see how that has anything to do with this thread, though, nor do I assume others "know nothing" about abuse or discrimination just because I've experienced it extensively.
If anything, it seems to me that experiencing discrimination should be a reason to stand against it when it affects others, not oversimplify their issues and brush that aside as mere humor.
I suspect at some point non-trans women will simply start boycotting these events.
Pretty sure such articles don’t include such information as it’s generally assumed that the audience are well aware of the constant testing, urine tests, drug tests etc that all athletes are constantly subject to. It would be redundant to include such information
They have a right. But ultimately it’s like men speaking on issues of feminism. Usually it’s seen more as a support issue. Men can speak up on such issues. But ultimately women are deferred to since you know, many issues are female specific. And men speaking on them is seen as intrusive. Not always but things relating to childbirth for instance. A man can certainly offer a sympathetic voice but no offence y’all don’t know what it’s like. So let the women folk speak on it.
In regards to this particular person, if she passed all the regular tests, then she doesn’t have a natural advantage. No more than a cis woman having higher than regular testosterone levels would anyway. Which does occur naturally in our species.
The transition process does tend to strip away a lot of the so called issues of superiority that I see some folk claim. I therefore defer to sports experts rather than folk who claim to speak out for “concern” for women. I often find there’s an ulterior motive. I’m not saying that’s the case for you, of course. I’ve just been “burned” too many times to not be a little suspicious and on the defensive.
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Suave
Simulated character
I would consider having trans athletes compete in a sports league of their own, this in order to avoid the stigma of unfair competition.
I'm a fan of levity in serious threads.
Even if it mocks an issue important to me...so long as the humor
works. I've posted cartoons viciously mocking us gun rights types.
It's a great idea.
But it'll likely never fly.
The numbers she put up tell the story . She has the advantage in that field of competitors. What to do ? Don't call it Sport. I do think the woman being discussed should speak out on her advantage. I'd like to hear her opinion.
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Same here. I've found that many--but not all, of course--of the people who argue against inclusion of trans women in women's sports at all under the banner of caring about cis female athletes are right-wing extremists who oppose women's rights in many other cases where their ideology conflicts with those rights.
Try bringing up elective abortion or prescribed gender roles and see how many of the abovementioned people support women's rights in those contexts. To some people, the blanket dismissal of the idea that trans women could possibly compete in women's sports at all is rooted in prejudice against trans people and denial of the need to acknowledge trans people's identities, not concern for women's rights.
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The old ad hominem argument, eh....demonize people
just for holding a reasonable view because you associate
them with some virulent group.
Why should we even bother to discuss it if you've pigeon
us all into the good & the bad guys, eh.
What I see is controversy based upon competing needs,
wants, & rights. It's complex. It needs to be explored,
& will take a lot of time & consideration....ideally without
everyone being labelled as either right wing reprobates
or SJW snowflakes. I find many views on both sides
compelling & interesting.
They aren't all equal and I'd imagine that it'd become somewhat gender divided again between transmen and transwomen. The only solution I ever heard that could work would just be to divide all sports by performance and not gender indiscriminately.
That has other problems so to me the most realistic solution is this: let things be as they are (trans folk being in the sport of their chosen gender) and everyone will adapt.
Humans have a knack for getting used to stuff.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I see controversy and a complex issue too. We don't disagree.
I think you may be taking my statements as a generalization when I was careful to specify that I was talking about a subset:
What purpose is served by demonizing
a subset with a negative stereotype?
It isn't. They shouldn't be allowed to do this. They should form their own leagues or categories.
It's workable. But the "separate but
equal" thing would never fly these days.
What I said is true about a subset of people who claim that the participation of trans women in women's sports isn't open to discussion and that sports organizations shouldn't recognize trans people's identities. In the case of certain people, it's neither a stereotype nor a demonization; it's a mere statement of fact.
I think it's sometimes important to understand different people's motives and ideologies when trying to analyze their positions. I'd be much more likely to view concerns about fairness in sports as genuine if they came from, say, you or multiple other forum members than I would be if they came from some anti-trans public figure who also supported sexism while claiming to care about the rights of female athletes.