US Govt: Zionists must end illegal occupation for peace

[LuisDantas]

^ What a laughable evasion that was - laughable and transparent.

No, Jay. It is a refusal to be commanded by one who has just failed to earn my respect.

I trust you will understand why that is proper and often needed.

 

[Flankerl]

Are you running away from the subject?
What does religion got to do with Palestine?

I don't know, its Wednesday... perhaps we are destroying the Al Aqsa Mosque again. Its been pretty much a running-"gag" for the last 100 years.

Are you really saying that Religion has nothing to do with the Conflict? Really?

 

[LuisDantas]

Are you running away from the subject?
What does religion got to do with Palestine?

In which sense is that running away from the subject?

You are saying quite bluntly that Arafat's death and some unespecified matter regarding Jerusalem are the decisive reasons for the lack of peace in Israel and the surrounding territory, and offering no support for that odd statement.

Then when it is pointed out that Arafat left the peace talks, you attempt to sidestep the discussion by claiming that he was killed for leaving the talks?

It really looks like you have simply decided that Israel must be to blame somehow and are just throwing random phrases in the hope that eventually one or more of them will look like they might support that hope.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Since you want us to be frank, tell me: what reason does anyone have to expect peace in the Middle East, even hypothetically withount an Israel?

Is there a solution to the Palestinian crises without peace?

 

[faroukfarouk]

I don't know, its Wednesday... perhaps we are destroying the Al Aqsa Mosque again. Its been pretty much a running-"gag" for the last 100 years.
Are you really saying that Religion has nothing to do with the Conflict? Really?

Are you insinuating that all Palestinian belong to the religion of Islam?

 

[LuisDantas]

Is there a solution to the Palestinian crises without peace?

By definition, there is not.

Unfortunately, apparently that just means that there is no solution. At least not before some form of tragedy kills a whole lot of people there.

Netanyahu is IMO tragically misguided and I sorely regret that he is leading Israel. But I don't know that he has much of a choice. Israel and the whole region may indeed be doomed to tragedy at this point.

 

[LuisDantas]

Are you insinuating that all Palestinian belong to the religion of Islam?

Now that is attempting to sidestep the subject, isn't it? It is hardly controversial that most Palestinians are muslims, nor that there is a strong, even decisive religious component to their motivations. Why are you implying that you disagree?

 

[Flankerl]

Are you insinuating that all Palestinian belong to the religion of Islam?

Not yet but soon.
The Christian Palestinians are leaving en masse. Bethlehem isn't even a Christian city anymore.

 

[faroukfarouk]

In which sense is that running away from the subject?
You are saying quite bluntly that Arafat's death and some unespecified matter regarding Jerusalem are the decisive reasons for the lack of peace in Israel and the surrounding territory, and offering no support for that odd statement.
Then when it is pointed out that Arafat left the peace talks, you attempt to sidestep the discussion by claiming that he was killed for leaving the talks?
It really looks like you have simply decided that Israel must be to blame somehow and are just throwing random phrases in the hope that eventually one or more of them will look like they might support that hope.

Do you have knowledge of what took place under the Oslo accord regarding Jerusalem?
Its inclusion was a coup for the Palestinians without which the accord would never have been signed.
Arafat did go out of his way for peace and he was prepared to give up land for the sake of peace but all he asked was east Jerusalem be the capital of a future Palestinian State.The Zionist refusal in negotiating on the final status of Jerusalem brought about the breakdown of peace.Who do you blame the Palestinians?
The bottom line is the Zionist missed the boat.

 

[LuisDantas]

Do you have knowledge of what took place under the Oslo accord regarding Jerusalem?
Its inclusion was a coup for the Palestinians without which the accord would never have been signed.
Arafat did go out of his way for peace and he was prepared to give up land for the sake of peace but all he asked was east Jerusalem be the capital of a future Palestinian State.The Zionist refusal in negotiating on the final status of Jerusalem brought about the breakdown of peace.Who do you blame the Palestinians?
The bottom line is the Zionist missed the boat.

Even taking for granted that what you say is completely true and accurate, that is still very poor arguing, to the point of being puzzling.

Do you expect Zionists to just take the blame for no good reason?

 

[faroukfarouk]

Even taking for granted that what you say is completely true and accurate, that is still very poor arguing, to the point of being puzzling.
Do you expect Zionists to just take the blame for no good reason?

They don't have to take any blame simply because they are at fault.
They were in breech of the Oslo accord.

 

[LuisDantas]

They don't have to take any blame simply because they are at fault.
They were in breech of the Oslo accord.

That may well be true (I am not up to date on the matter), but we are talking about accords from twenty years ago.

What do you realistically expect Israel to do now? It is obviously not like they can simply decide to trust their neighbors not to attempt to attack them.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Not yet but soon.
The Christian Palestinians are leaving en masse. Bethlehem isn't even a Christian city anymore.

In 1948 20% of the population of Palestine was Christian.After the "Israeli" seizure of power most of the Christians were simply expelled.George Habish,founder of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine was a Christian and the PLO's top representative in the U.S. was Michael Tarazi who was from a very old and highly respected Gaza Christian family.In 1988 the family had to leave after his 18-year-old brother was crucified on the hood of an Israeli jeep.Opposition to Zionism has always been heavily Christian Palestinian.
So please stop making it an Islamic issue.

 

[Flankerl]

If only Muslims would make it an Islamic issue.

Oh and it really is not my fault that Bethlehem is now a Muslim majority City.

But I get it, its all the Zionists fault. As always.
Meanwhile there is a massive Christian Exodus from the entire Middle East.

 

[faroukfarouk]

That may well be true (I am not up to date on the matter), but we are talking about accords from twenty years ago.

Well one thing for sure you do lack knowledge on the subject of Palestine.

What do you realistically expect Israel to do now? It is obviously not like they can simply decide to trust their neighbors not to attempt to attack them.

Its very simple .
Let the UN ,which created this mess in 1948, sort the mess out peacefully.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Oh and it really is not my fault that Bethlehem is now a Muslim majority City

Then why did you expel them from 1948.

But I get it, its all the Zionists fault.

Its taking a mighty long time for you to accept it.

 

[Flankerl]

1948 I was -37 years old.

Anyway its ridiculous to believe that all Palestinians who don't live in Israel or the Westbank/Gaza were expelled. That's totally not how wars have ever worked.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well one thing for sure you do lack knowledge on the subject of Palestine.

Very true.

You are not showing a lot of evidence of knowing any better, unfortunately.

Its very simple .
Let the UN ,which created this mess in 1948, sort the mess out peacefully.

What would that mean in practice? What would the realistically viable, desirable measures be?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

There is no peace without trust
neither side has demonstrated that they deserve the trust of the other.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Do you have knowledge of what took place under the Oslo accord regarding Jerusalem?
Its inclusion was a coup for the Palestinians without which the accord would never have been signed.
Arafat did go out of his way for peace and he was prepared to give up land for the sake of peace but all he asked was east Jerusalem be the capital of a future Palestinian State.The Zionist refusal in negotiating on the final status of Jerusalem brought about the breakdown of peace.Who do you blame the Palestinians?
The bottom line is the Zionist missed the boat.

That'd be "the Zionists " fault if the Arabs had any actual claim to East Jerusalem