USA Death Penalty

[Shaul]

No but they should be taken into account, imo.

I never wrote they shouldn't be taken into account. I wrote that policy should follow the nominative case.

 

[John53]

No but they should be taken into account, imo.

Blackstone's ratio....

 

[Secret Chief]

Blackstone's ratio....

Damn, now you've made me learn something.

 

[Secret Chief]

Blackstone's ratio....

Not for this **** though:

"Former American Vice President Dick Cheney said that his support of American use of "enhanced interrogation techniques" against suspected terrorists was unchanged by the fact that 25% of CIA detainees subject to that treatment were later proven to be innocent, including one who died of hypothermia in CIA custody. "I'm more concerned with bad guys who got out and released than I am with a few that in fact were innocent." Asked whether the 25% margin was too high, Cheney responded, "I have no problem as long as we achieve our objective. ... I'd do it again in a minute." "

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone's_ratio

Maybe innocent Dick should get some enhanced interrogation.*

*systematic torture.
"Methods used included beating, binding in contorted stress positions, hooding, subjection to deafening noise, sleep disruption, sleep deprivation to the point of hallucination, deprivation of food, drink, and medical care for wounds, as well as waterboarding, walling, sexual humiliation, rape, sexual assault, subjection to extreme heat or extreme cold, and confinement in small coffin-like boxes."

And the US is a modern civilised country is it.
- Enhanced interrogation techniques - Wikipedia

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yep, justice will prevail.

Justice is perhaps one of the greatest cultural foundations of US.

Death for death is vengeance, not justice.

 

[Secret Chief]

The US is in with some august company:

- Death penalty: How many countries still have it?

 

[Shaul]

The US is in with some august company:

View attachment 87320


- Death penalty: How many countries still have it?

So because some other countries implement their death penalty poorly the U.S. should have one. Interesting logic you've got there.

 

[Bthoth]

Death for death is vengeance, not justice.

Again, if you ever lose a family member to a criminal, you will seek justice too.

Vengeance is when the family member does it themselves.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Again, if you ever lose a family member to a criminal, you will seek justice too.

Vengeance is when the family member does it themselves.

I wouldn't wamt someone else to lose family. I'm not a monster who wants blood. I would want justice, not more death.
Don't be so presumptuous you speak for me.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So because some other countries implement their death penalty poorly the U.S. should have one. Interesting logic you've got there.

It shouldn't have it at all.

 

[Bthoth]

I wouldn't wamt someone else to lose family. I'm not a monster who wants blood. I would want justice, not more death.
Don't be so presumptuous you speak for me.

I grew up in Southern California. Iv'e seen what criminals can and often do to a person.

Just because you are against justice and want to re-label an execution as vengeance, does not mean you speak for ANYONE but your own self.

Nice chat, enjoy your day.

 

[exchemist]

Death by nitrogen....possibly...

"Kenneth Eugene Smith is set to become the first person in the US to be executed by nitrogen gas.

The UN's High Commissioner for Human Rights last week said the never-before-used method could amount to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment, and called for a halt.

Medical experts and campaigners have warned about the risk of catastrophic mishaps, ranging from violent convulsions to survival in a vegetative state, and even the possibility of gas leaking from the mask and killing others in the room, including Mr Smith's religious advocate.

Dr Joel Zivot, an associate professor in anaesthesiology at Emory University's School of Medicine, accused the Alabama authorities of a "terrible" track record of "cruel" executions.

In 1996 a jury recommended life in prison without parole for Smith, but the judge overruled them and sentenced him to death. At his trial he admitted to being present when the victim was killed, but says he did not take part in the attack."

- Death penalty: Kenneth Eugene Smith says wait for untested execution like 'torture'

Context:

More than a third of executions in the US this year were botched or highly problematic, according to a new report.

"Michael Benza, a law professor at Case Western Reserve University who has represented death row inmates, told the BBC that the primary reason for execution failures was "using a medical model of executions, lethal injection, but not using medical people to carry it out"."

- A third of US executions botched in 2022 - report


Thoughts?

There seems to be a lot of nonsense here. Nitrogen is not a toxic gas. 78% of the air we breathe is nitrogen. If you breathe 100%. Nitrogen you rapidly pass out from lack of oxygen. You do not feel breathless or suffocated, as it is rising CO2 content of your blood that triggers that sensation. If you breathe nitrogen your CO2 level stays normal.

I‘m aware of this because a shift supervisor I knew at a refinery where I worked was found dead with his head in the inspection hatch of a column that was being purged with nitrogen. He would have felt nothing and just passed out. Terrible accident.

Like most civilised people I am strongly opposed to the death penalty, but it does nobody any favours when silly scare stories about gas leaking from the mask etc. are put about by journalists.

 

[Secret Chief]

There seems to be a lot of nonsense here. Nitrogen is not a toxic gas. 78% of the air we breathe is nitrogen. If you breathe 100%. Nitrogen you rapidly pass out from lack of oxygen. You do not feel breathless or suffocated, as it is rising CO2 content of your blood that triggers that sensation. If you breathe nitrogen your CO2 level stays normal.

I‘m aware of this because a shift supervisor I knew at a refinery where I worked was found dead with his head in the inspection hatch of a column that was being purged with nitrogen. He would have felt nothing and just passed out. Terrible accident.

Like most civilised people I am strongly opposed to the death penalty, but it does nobody any favours when silly scare stories about gas leaking from the mask etc. are put about by journalists.

We might know more tomorrow, it being Thursday.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

But we aren't arguing to the exceptional case. I think there are more people in prison who are genuinely guilty than actually innocent. You are free to think otherwise.

And for that reason -- a simple majority -- you suppose there's no reason to give any further consideration to those who are actually innocent?

I would not like myself very much if that's as deep as my consideration of the topic went.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Good. I repeated, we should not make policy based upon the exceptional cases but instead upon the normal cases.

And having done that (which I agree is the correct approach at first) should we not then give consideration how to justly deal with the exceptions? Or is that too much work?

 

[Bthoth]

And for that reason -- a simple majority -- you suppose there's no reason to give any further consideration to those who are actually innocent?

I would not like myself very much if that's as deep as my consideration of the topic went.

In a way, i agree. It's sad that innocent have died with bad information.

I align it with religions. Bad information, bad judgement and a huge array of false witness and people die.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Not for this **** though:

"Former American Vice President Dick Cheney said that his support of American use of "enhanced interrogation techniques" against suspected terrorists was unchanged by the fact that 25% of CIA detainees subject to that treatment were later proven to be innocent, including one who died of hypothermia in CIA custody. "I'm more concerned with bad guys who got out and released than I am with a few that in fact were innocent." Asked whether the 25% margin was too high, Cheney responded, "I have no problem as long as we achieve our objective. ... I'd do it again in a minute." "

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone's_ratio

Maybe innocent Dick should get some enhanced interrogation.*

*systematic torture.
"Methods used included beating, binding in contorted stress positions, hooding, subjection to deafening noise, sleep disruption, sleep deprivation to the point of hallucination, deprivation of food, drink, and medical care for wounds, as well as waterboarding, walling, sexual humiliation, rape, sexual assault, subjection to extreme heat or extreme cold, and confinement in small coffin-like boxes."

And the US is a modern civilised country is it.
- Enhanced interrogation techniques - Wikipedia

Did nobody ask Cheney "what if one of the 25% was your daughter?" Too bad, the answer might have been most interesting.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

There seems to be a lot of nonsense here. Nitrogen is not a toxic gas. 78% of the air we breathe is nitrogen. If you breathe 100%. Nitrogen you rapidly pass out from lack of oxygen. You do not feel breathless or suffocated, as it is rising CO2 content of your blood that triggers that sensation. If you breathe nitrogen your CO2 level stays normal.

I‘m aware of this because a shift supervisor I knew at a refinery where I worked was found dead with his head in the inspection hatch of a column that was being purged with nitrogen. He would have felt nothing and just passed out. Terrible accident.

Like most civilised people I am strongly opposed to the death penalty, but it does nobody any favours when silly scare stories about gas leaking from the mask etc. are put about by journalists.

I read that too and it didn't make any sense. It's not toxic and I couldn't imagine that they would be pumping in so much nitrogen that it could fill up the room from a small leak around the seal.

 

[Heyo]

Let's be clear about this. Are you saying that there are more innocent people in prison than there are guilty people?

A case could be made for it.
The incarceration rate in the US is more than four times higher than in comparable western nations.
The detection rates are similar.
I can think of multiple explanations, more innocent people being incarcerated than guilty is one.
US citizens being about four times more criminal than people of other nations is another one.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So because some other countries implement their death penalty poorly the U.S. should have one. Interesting logic you've got there.

The US also implements the death penalty poorly.