Utah's Proposed Sex Ed Law

[Sunstone]

While I totally agree with everything else you said, this bit got me curious.
In what area, bar having the largest military, is the US considered a world leader?

Greenhouse gases output per capita. We've got the biggest SUVs and we're damn proud of it.

 

[Sunstone]

The problem with leaving sex out of public education is that poorly educated kids -- such as kids homeschooled that contraception is ineffective and that abstinance is the only answer -- are more likely than well educated kids to get pregnant out of wedlock, spread STDs, and otherwise become a public burden.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I see it a threat when society wants to do my job as a parent because of crappy parents in the world.

To me, telling young children about homosexuality would be objectionable to me as everyone allowing me to conduct Sunday school on school grounds during class hours.

How is that anyway the same? Ideally, when a school is talking about homosexuality they are telling kids it is normal, and there is nothing inherently wrong with it. The bulk majority of parents (71% according to my text book) do not talk to their kids about sex, so someone has to.
What is taught in a sex ed class should be objective facts, whereas a religious sermon is often not based on facts but subjective feelings. Schools should be telling students homosexuality is ok, and if a parent wants to teach there kids homosexuality is wrong then that is there prerogative.

 

[Father Heathen]

I cannot believe he has issues with wiki.

It was a wiki, not the wiki(pedia). There is no consensus or review. It was just one unidentified guy essentially saying that he seen some poll (without providing or naming it) that liberals outnumber conservatives 2 to 1.

It actually does make sense that most educators would be liberals, however, but that doesn't mean they don't teach objectively.

 

[Skwim]

While I totally agree with everything else you said, this bit got me curious.
In what area, bar having the largest military, is the US considered a world leader?

Quick search:

"The USA is the world's foremost economic and military power, with global interests and an unmatched global reach.

America's gross domestic product accounts for close to a quarter of the world total, and its military budget is reckoned to be almost as much as the rest of the world's defence spending put together.

The country is also a major source of entertainment: American TV, Hollywood films, jazz, blues, rock and rap music are primary ingredients in global popular culture."
source

"The United States is a World Leader in Humanitarian Mine Action"
source

"The United States is the world's leader in incarceration with 2.3 million people currently in the nation's prisons or jails -- a 500% increase over the past thirty years."
source

"United States still world leader in GM plantings
The United States still leads the world in GM plantings, with 170 million acres in 2012, which produce 95% of the nation's sugar beets, 94% of the soybeans, 90% of the cotton and 88% of the feed corn."
source

"The USA is the world's leader in providing online courses and programs."
source

"as of 2009—USA is the world leader in wind energy production."
source

"The USA has been the world leader in the field of agricultural biotechnology,"
source
​

 

[jarofthoughts]

I tried real hard to give FH an unbiased sourse originally. I cannot believe he has issues with wiki.

Anyway, I stumbled across this little gem. I don't agree with everything said, but it does portray the liberal mindset IMHO.

[youtube]uGwtG8nVpUU[/youtube]
How Liberals Argue - YouTube

After about three minutes into the video I just couldn't take it any more...
What a bunch of utter hogwash.
I can't seriously believe that you have met people who actually argue like that.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Greenhouse gases output per capita. We've got the biggest SUVs and we're damn proud of it.

Well, as long as you're proud of something...

 

[McBell]

After about three minutes into the video I just couldn't take it any more...
What a bunch of utter hogwash.
I can't seriously believe that you have met people who actually argue like that.

Does RF count as "meeting"?

 

[Father Heathen]

I tried real hard to give FH an unbiased sourse originally. I cannot believe he has issues with wiki.

Anyway, I stumbled across this little gem. I don't agree with everything said, but it does portray the liberal mindset IMHO.

[youtube]uGwtG8nVpUU[/youtube]
How Liberals Argue - YouTube

A lot of the pot calling the kettle black, and a lot of ridicilious straw men and stereotypes that only folks who've never set foot outside of their trailer park would believe.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Quick search: "The USA is the world's foremost economic and military power, with global interests and an unmatched global reach. America's gross domestic product accounts for close to a quarter of the world total, and its military budget is reckoned to be almost as much as the rest of the world's defence spending put together.

And, again, barring the military spending, how do those numbers stack up when compared per capita?

The country is also a major source of entertainment: American TV, Hollywood films, jazz, blues, rock and rap music are primary ingredients in global popular culture."

Not sure if that's a good thing though, and still, Bollywood has Hollywood beat, at least when it comes to the number of films put out annually.

"The United States is a World Leader in Humanitarian Mine Action"

Again, how do those number stack up when you compare it per capita?

"The United States is the world's leader in incarceration with 2.3 million people currently in the nation's prisons or jails -- a 500% increase over the past thirty years."

You can have that one.
Not exactly something one would want to be a world leader at...

"United States still world leader in GM plantings
The United States still leads the world in GM plantings, with 170 million acres in 2012, which produce 95% of the nation's sugar beets, 94% of the soybeans, 90% of the cotton and 88% of the feed corn."

Your source is somewhat unclear on this, but how much of that produce is also consumed in the US?

"The USA is the world's leader in providing online courses and programs."

Your source doesn't work or is faulty.
Also, how does that stack up when compared as per capita?

"as of 2009—USA is the world leader in wind energy production."

Your source doesn't work or is faulty.
But it did say that almost all your energy is produced using fossil fuels.
A per capita scale on this would be more helpful.

"The USA has been the world leader in the field of agricultural biotechnology,"

Granted, although, again, a per capita scale would be more helpful.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Does RF count as "meeting"?

Not sure.
If so, then I'd have to seriously expand the level of silliness applied to actual arguments.
Still, claiming that this is how 'liberals' argue seems ever so slightly off base...

 

[McBell]

Still, claiming that this is how 'liberals' argue seems ever so slightly off base...

I can just as easily claim that that is how {insert group here} argue.

Doesn't make it true.

Of course what is most revealing is that he flat out admitted that that is how he hears those who disagree with him....

 

[Skwim]

And, again, barring the military spending, how do those numbers stack up when compared per capita?



Not sure if that's a good thing though, and still, Bollywood has Hollywood beat, at least when it comes to the number of films put out annually.



Again, how do those number stack up when you compare it per capita?



You can have that one.
Not exactly something one would want to be a world leader at...



Your source is somewhat unclear on this, but how much of that produce is also consumed in the US?



Your source doesn't work or is faulty.
Also, how does that stack up when compared as per capita?



Your source doesn't work or is faulty.
But it did say that almost all your energy is produced using fossil fuels.
A per capita scale on this would be more helpful.



Granted, although, again, a per capita scale would be more helpful.

Aside from taking the thread too much off topic, the subject isn't interesting enough to pursue. As for the two "Your source doesn't work or is faulty." they work fine for me.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Aside from taking the thread too much off topic, the subject isn't interesting enough to pursue. As for the two "Your source doesn't work or is faulty." they work fine for me.

Fair enough.
Let's get back on topic instead.

 

[dawny0826]

Utah recently passed legistlation that, if signed into law, bans teaching about contraception and homosexuality to public school students. Do you think that sort of law will catch on in other states?

Yes, I imagine that this sort of law may catch on in other states.

As a parent, ultimately, I think that I should be the first to talk to my kids about sex and to talk to them honestly about the entire picture, benefits of abstaining along with the entire spiel about the importance of contraception. Although, I don't see the importance about talking about adding in a full educational piece on homosexuality, unless the conversation comes up.

I agree with those that have pointed out the importance of talking to kids honestly when they raise questions and seem ready for honest discussion.

 

[jarofthoughts]

As a parent, ultimately, I think that I should be the first to talk to my kids about sex and to talk to them honestly about the entire picture, benefits of abstaining along with the entire spiel about the importance of contraception.

That's all fine and dandy, and in a perfect world all parents would do this.
However, since we do not live in a perfect world, many parents do not have these conversations with their children, or, they have them way too late.
This means that the educational system needs to pick up the slack to help avoid bigger problems down the line.

Although, I don't see the importance about talking about adding in a full educational piece on homosexuality, unless the conversation comes up.

Depending on the poll and country you use as an example, between 5-10% of the population will either identify as a homosexual or have homosexual experiences in their lifetime. This means 1-3 pupils per class on average. When and if this happens it is important that they are aware of what's going on, and that it is not the end of the world. Also, including some straight up (no pun intended) information about homosexuality can help build tolerance, and does no intrinsic harm.

I agree with those that have pointed out the importance of talking to kids honestly when they raise questions and seem ready for honest discussion.

Absolutely.

 

[Reverend Rick]

The problem with leaving sex out of public education is that poorly educated kids -- such as kids homeschooled that contraception is ineffective and that abstinance is the only answer -- are more likely than well educated kids to get pregnant out of wedlock, spread STDs, and otherwise become a public burden.

While we are keeping everyone honest here, do you have a source for this?

 

[McBell]

While we are keeping everyone honest here, do you have a source for this?

You seriously need a source that shows abstinence only is an epic fail?

 

[Reverend Rick]

You seriously need a source that shows abstinence only is an epic fail?

Did you seriously believe that most teachers are conservative?

Another example of liberalism in the school system:

A Conservative Teacher: Elementary Students Turned Into Pawns by Liberal Teacher?

 

[McBell]

Did you seriously believe that most teachers are conservative?

Another example of liberalism in the school system:

A Conservative Teacher: Elementary Students Turned Into Pawns by Liberal Teacher?

Am I to assume that that is a "No"?