Vaccination and Religious Beliefs

[shawn001]

Its like asking me there is a god, no, it just wont happen.

That is not what I am asking, as it certainly can happen.

Flu pandemic could kill up to 81 million people

"
A flu virus as deadly as the one that caused the 1918 Spanish flu could kill as many as 81 million worldwide if it struck today, a new study estimates.

By applying historical death rates to modern population data, the researchers calculated a death toll of 51 million to 81 million, with a median estimate of 62 million.

That’s surprisingly high, said lead researcher Chris Murray of Harvard University. He did the analysis, in part, because he thought prior claims of 50 million deaths were wildly inflated.

“We expected to end up with a number between 15 and 20 million,” Murray said. “It turns out we were wrong.”

The new work is published in Saturday’s issue of the journal The Lancet.

The 1918 flu outbreak killed at least 40 million people worldwide. But flu pandemics have varied widely in their severity. The most recent, in 1957 and 1968, were relatively mild, killing 2 million and 1 million people worldwide respectively."

Flu pandemic could kill up to 81 million people - Health - Cold and flu | NBC News


This was in 2013


Texas measles outbreak linked to church

"The latest measles outbreak shows the need for everyone to be vaccinated, doctors say. A visitor to a Texas megachurch infected 15 people, most of whom were unvaccinated or had no vaccination records."
"Measles is making a worrisome resurgence across the USA, with at least 135 documented cases this year.
Measles, once a common childhood infection that killed up to 500 Americans a year, has been officially eradicated in the Western Hemisphere. For many years, the USA's few dozen measles diagnoses were "imported" cases in individuals who traveled from countries where the virus remains common. High vaccination rates largely halted the virus at the North American border."

Texas measles outbreak linked to church

Measles Outbreaks 2015
Measles in the United States

Measles Outbreaks 2015 - Recent Outbreaks and Exposures

 

[InChrist]

.

So why are the only places with polio the places that either interrupted the vaccinations or simply never got them?

Most cases of polio now in the world are vaccine induced and with strains that are more serious than the wild polio strain.


Confirmed: India’s Polio Eradication Campaign in 2011 Caused 47,500 Cases of Vaccine-Induced Polio Paralysis

By Dr. Mercola

"If you listen to mainstream media news, you’ll be told that polio has now been eradicated in India – an accomplishment the Polio Global Eradication Initiative (PGEI), founded in 1988 by the World Health Organization (WHO), Rotary International, UNICEF, and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), are attributing to the intense polio vaccination campaign.

The Indian government reportedly had 2.3 million vaccine administrators visit over 200 million households, with oral polio vaccinations given to nearly 170 million children 5 years of age and younger;1 health officials are now doubling their efforts to conquer polio in Pakistan as well.

What you’re NOT learning from the mainstream media, however, is that there’s a growing public movement fighting the profound misinformation about the vaccine, mainly because VACCINE-CAUSED polio is maiming and even killing a growing number of children every day, far outstripping the damage done by the wild-type polio that has been supplanted by the manmade form found within the vaccine.

The Polio Vaccine is Causing a Deadly Polio-Like Disease in Children
A paper published earlier this year in the Indian Journal of Medical Ethics should have made headlines around the globe, as it estimated there were 47,500 cases of a polio-like condition linked to the oral polio vaccine in 2011 alone."

- See more at: Confirmed: India’s Polio Eradication Campaign in 2011 Caused 47,500 Cases of Vaccine-Induced Polio Paralysis


For further information on the history polio:

Smoke, Mirrors, and the “Disappearance” Of Polio | International Medical Council on Vaccination

 

[Pegg]

How do you think comments like "just stay healthy, man" go over in an "emotive" conversation? Do you think they sound arrogant and dismissive?

No i dont. I think the first step to defeating disease is with a strong immune system.

I think its worse to demand that everyone hold the same view as you and do what you think they should do because its what you want. If you want to be vaccinated then you are welcome to it and no one has the right to demand you not do it because they dont want to do it.

Yet that is the stance that many are taking. "I want it so you have to have it too"

That doesnt wash with me.

 

[Poisonshady313]

No i dont. I think the first step to defeating disease is with a strong immune system.

If you refuse to teach an immune system how to fight against certain diseases, it won't be strong. From what you're saying, it appears that you like the theory of defeating disease but not the practice of it.

I think its worse to demand that everyone hold the same view as you and do what you think they should do because its what you want. If you want to be vaccinated then you are welcome to it and no one has the right to demand you not do it because they dont want to do it.

It's a public safety issue, not a personal preference issue. You don't have the right to drive drunk. Not because some totalitarian meanies demand it. But because it puts everyone else at risk.

The risk of vaccination is and has been proven to be well worth the benefits of vaccination. Refusing to vaccinate puts the rest of us at risk. And you don't have the right to put the rest of us at risk.

 

[InChrist]

Yeah you do know that vaccines produce ANTI BODIES!! You know what an antibody is or does, don't you? And that vaccines aren't infecting you, it's just like a simulation or like a "pretend" infection.

.

I know what antibodies are and here is a little further info for you concerning vaccines, antibodies, and real immune system response.

"8. Immunity without antibodies Scientists were surprised when they learned that individuals with a deficit in antibody production, called agammaglobulinemia, recovered from measles just as well as normal antibody producers. This “disconcerting” discovery was made in the 1960s when measles vaccinations were just getting under way. One of the most disconcerting discoveries in clinical medicine was the finding that children with congenital agamma-globulinaemia, who could make no antibody and had only insignificant traces of immunoglobulin in circulation, contracted measles in normal fashion, showed the usual sequence of symptoms and signs, and were subsequently immune. No measles antibody was detectable in their serum [the water part of blood minus clotting factors and cells]. [34] Therefore the antibody part of immunity is not at all necessary for the natural recovery from measles, nor the immunity upon re-exposure. …children with antibody deficiency syndromes have quite unremarkable attacks of measles with the characteristic rash and normal recovery. Furthermore, they are not unduly prone to reinfection. It therefore seems that serum antibody, at any rate in any quantity, is not required for the production of the measles rash; nor for the normal recovery from the disease; nor to prevent reinfection. [35] Nonetheless, vaccine scientists and public health officials have measured “immunity” solely focusing on antibodies. Antibody production does occur in natural infection but it is the last thing that happens and not a necessary part of recovery or long-term immunity. It is known that the immune system responds with more than just antibodies, yet because markers of cell-mediated immunity are elusive, antibodies have become the measure of whether or not a person is immune. When a person gets an infectious disease for the first time, the body’s immune system uses its innate powers, which mostly involve cellular immunity. In the process, it prepares for the future. The next time that same infectious agent comes around; the body will use its memory of the first experience so that it can react faster. This is done with or without antibodies."

It is really a bad thing that the "waning immunity" of vaccines has replaced the lifelong immunity children once received after a natural measles infection.

"This combination of effects can result in large-scale measles epidemics, despite high vaccination rates. When immunity wanes, vaccination has a far more limited impact on the average number of cases. While this observation has clear public-health implications, the dynamic consequences of the interaction between vaccination, waning immunity and boosting are far more striking. For high levels of vaccination (greater than 80%) and moderate levels of waning immunity (greater than 30 years), large-scale epidemic cycles can be induced. [28]
Dr. James Cherry, commented that, in the post-vaccine era, measles had become a “time bomb.” [29] Is this why the CDC and health officials go into a state of panic when measles cases erupt in well vaccinated populations? Do officials know that at some point waning immunity will start an epidemic even in a very highly vaccinated population? Think of the impact of this dynamic as the truly immune seniors die out of the population, and are replaced by vaccine “immune” people."

- See more at: Measles and measles vaccines: fourteen things to consider. ~by Roman Bystrianyk (co-author Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines, and the Forgotten History) | International Medical Council on Vaccination

 

[InChrist]

The risk of vaccination is and has been proven to be well worth the benefits of vaccination. Refusing to vaccinate puts the rest of us at risk. And you don't have the right to put the rest of us at risk.

Life is a risk. No matter how many vaccines are manufactured, or mandated, there is no way that every disease will ever be prevented.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Life is a risk. No matter how many vaccines are manufactured, or mandated, there is no way that every disease will ever be prevented.

This is true. I don't doubt this. But that doesn't mean preventable disease should be allowed to run rampant, and it doesn't mean we should allow non-vaccinated individuals to put vaccinated individuals at risk.

I know that waking up in the morning and going outside, I run the risk of being hit by a car. This doesn't mean we should allow drunk driving on the basis that I'm at risk anyway.

 

[shawn001]

They were using a live vaccine.


India to get polio-free status amid rise in acute flaccid paralysis cases
Government, in its rush to get polio-free certification, has ignored increasing cases of similar ailments, say activists

India to get polio-free status amid rise in acute flaccid paralysis cases - Livemint

They also need to switch to

"
India’s strategy to maintain its polio-free status involves phasing out the oral polio vaccine (OPV) due to adverse effects. To contain the “wild” polio virus, OPV uses viruses which are “attenuated” but still alive. This weakened version of polio virus activates an immune response in the body.
The India expert advisory group on polio has recommended that the country’s immunization programme switch from trivalent oral polio vaccine and only rely on the oral bivalent variant, reducing chances of vaccine derived polio virus infection. The switch will be accompanied with a booster shot of injectable polio vaccine. The WHO strategic advisory group of experts (SAGE) on immunization has called for a global, coordinated withdrawal of type 2-containing OPV by the end of 2016, and switch to bivalent OPV.

India to get polio-free status amid rise in acute flaccid paralysis cases - Livemint


"
Vaccine-Associated Paralytic Poliomyelitis
Vaccine-associated paralytic poliomyelitis is a rare adverse reaction to the live oral polio vaccine. The paralysis from this condition is identical to that caused by wild poliovirus, and may be permanent. Inactivated polio vaccine does not contain live poliovirus, so it cannot cause vaccine-associated paralytic poliomyelitis.

Vaccine-Associated Paralytic Poliomyelitis

However, there are many other causes of acute flaccid paralysis

Causes of AFP

Acute Flaccid Paralysis






Suzanne Humphries

Suzanne Humphries - RationalWiki

 

[Pegg]

If you refuse to teach an immune system how to fight against certain diseases, it won't be strong. From what you're saying, it appears that you like the theory of defeating disease but not the practice of it.



It's a public safety issue, not a personal preference issue. You don't have the right to drive drunk. Not because some totalitarian meanies demand it. But because it puts everyone else at risk.

The risk of vaccination is and has been proven to be well worth the benefits of vaccination. Refusing to vaccinate puts the rest of us at risk. And you don't have the right to put the rest of us at risk.

Oh yes, because the number of people who have adverse reactions to vaccinations is less then the people who have adverse reactions to disease.

Yep, got it.

 

[Pegg]

Life is a risk. No matter how many vaccines are manufactured, or mandated, there is no way that every disease will ever be prevented.

exactly. And if pro-vaccinators believe that vaccines are going to stop them getting sick, then they may be the ones putting everyone else at risk because they may become complacent when it comes to cleanliness, hygiene and healthy eating.

 

[InChrist]

I find it astonishing and I can't believe that so many people buy into the status quo and media hype abandoning common sense. How can anyone think it's okay or healthy to inject diseased matter, animal DNA and proteins ( pig, chicken, monkey, mouse, dog), human fetal cells, heavy metals, detergents, preservatives, etc. DIRECTLY into the blood stream (especially an infant) by-passing all the body's first outer defense mechanisms?

 

[Sapiens]

the body is all one

No the body is not one, it is a colonial organism composed of hundreds if not thousands of different species. That sort of unsophisticated and simple clap trap is where you jump the tracks at the get go. How can you expect anyone to take anything you say seriously if you display that clear misunderstanding of how thinks actually function?

 

[Sapiens]

exactly. And if pro-vaccinators believe that vaccines are going to stop them getting sick, then they may be the ones putting everyone else at risk because they may become complacent when it comes to cleanliness, hygiene and healthy eating.

That is idiotic. Ask any immunologist. Most of them will tell you that an unchallenged immune system is an unhealthy immune system.

 

[Sapiens]

I find it astonishing and I can't believe that so many people buy into the status quo and media hype abandoning common sense. How can anyone think it's okay or healthy to inject diseased matter, animal DNA and proteins ( pig, chicken, monkey, mouse, porcupine, dog), human fetal cells, heavy metals, detergents, preservatives, etc. DIRECTLY into the blood stream (especially an infant) by-passing all the body's first outer defense mechanisms?

Can you explain then how this "unclean" process has resulted in a far, far healthier population?

 

[InChrist]

Actually, it's not fun, but rather sad that junk science prevails in some. Vaccines have been placed under so much scrutiny, but study after study after study have shown they are safe and effective.
Have you ever actually seen an iron lung? If you haven't, that is because of vaccines. If you have, you haven't seen many or seen them in a long time.

Not really much scrutiny. Here's a little history lesson...



"When people ask me where all the children on iron lungs are, I would answer that they should ask Dr. Douglas Kerr from Johns Hopkins, who stated on pg. xv in the Forward to Donna Jackson Nakazawa’s book “The Autoimmune Epidemic”…

“Infants as young as five months old can get Transverse Myelitis, and some are left permanently paralyzed and dependent upon a ventilator to breathe… my colleagues at the Johns Hopkins Hospital and I hear about or treat hundreds of new cases every year.”

Does the public have any idea that there are hundreds of cases of something that would once have been called polio, and some of those children will be dependent on a modern version of the iron lung? No. Parents today think that the Salk vaccine eliminated any need for ventilators, because the pictures of all these children on iron lungs are no longer paraded in front of people in order to create fear. Besides which, today’s “iron lungs” don’t look like a prototype submarine. They are barely recognizable as today’s “ventilators

The polio vaccine had the fastest licensing in FDA history. It was approved for commercial production after only a two-hour deliberation amongst the Licensing Committee, in a pressured environment. These scientists witnessed a vaccine that was escorted to market, before academic and community doctors had a chance to read any published reports on the safety studies, and before the results of the big polio vaccine trial made it into any medical journal. If these scientists had had more say, it is likely that the “Cutter” disaster and the “Wyeth problem,” both events that led to crippling or death of vaccine recipients just weeks following the hurried vaccine licensing – could have been averted. - See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2...isappearance-of-polio/#sthash.tUAfbTi2.dpuf.”

- See more at: Smoke, Mirrors, and the “Disappearance” Of Polio | International Medical Council on Vaccination

 

[InChrist]

Can you explain then how this "unclean" process has resulted in a far, far healthier population?

I don't think the population is healthier. This country actually has a pretty high infant mortality rate and a monumental increase in autoimmune issues.

 

[Sapiens]

Pretty high when compared to other developed nations that have much stricter vaccination policies and many fewer religionists. I leave it to you to sort out the cause, but do note that it as dropped since the advent of vaccination, so religionists must be at the root of it.

The increase in auto-immune problem is interesting. I put before you the idea that we live too clean and that a "bored" immune system finds ways to get into mischief.

 

[InChrist]

This is true. I don't doubt this. But that doesn't mean preventable disease should be allowed to run rampant, and it doesn't mean we should allow non-vaccinated individuals to put vaccinated individuals at risk.

I know that waking up in the morning and going outside, I run the risk of being hit by a car. This doesn't mean we should allow drunk driving on the basis that I'm at risk anyway.

And how many infectious diseases must we all be required to have vaccines for before it will be enough...20...25..30...40...100? Then how often will we all be required to have boosters for all of these due to the waning immunity nature of vaccines...every 5 years..10 years? The reality there would be no end and it is really illogical to think that those who don't want to put a lot of diseased tissue and toxins into their blood stream are putting you at risk. Please do further research on the nature of vaccinations as opposed to true immunity.
Disease and illness is an unavoidable fact of life which I don't think can be compared with drunk driving.

Basics of the Human Immune System Prior to Introduction of Vaccines: Are Vaccines Turning Our Children’s Immune Systems Inside Out? Part 2 | International Medical Council on Vaccination.

 

[Pegg]

And how many infectious diseases must we all be required to have vaccines for before it will be enough...20...25..30...40...100? Then how often will we all be required to have boosters for all of these due to the waning immunity nature of vaccines...every 5 years..10 years? The reality there would be no end and it is really illogical to think that those who don't want to put a lot of diseased tissue and toxins into their blood stream are putting you at risk. Please do further research on the nature of vaccinations as opposed to true immunity.
Disease and illness is an unavoidable fact of life which I don't think can be compared with drunk driving.

Basics of the Human Immune System Prior to Introduction of Vaccines: Are Vaccines Turning Our Children’s Immune Systems Inside Out? Part 2 | International Medical Council on Vaccination.

This is an important point for those who put their complete trust in artificial vaccination:

Those natural diseases also had the advantage of conferring permanent immunity, which is not necessarily the case with vaccines as attested to with revaccination every few years and higher percentages of infectious disease among those vaccinated. -
See more at: Basics of the Human Immune System Prior to Introduction of Vaccines: Are Vaccines Turning Our Children’s Immune Systems Inside Out? Part 2 | International Medical Council on Vaccination​

 

[Pegg]

What an important point about proper diet and nutrition:

Concerning the dangers of measles, aside from hygiene and sanitation, this largely involves personal disciplines in terms of diet, nutrition, and other health habits in which restriction/avoidance of sugar plays a prominent role along with abundant dietary sources (fresh fruits and vegetables) containing vitamins C and A. Nutrient deficiency may be an underlying reason that flu epidemics tend to occur over holidays, when people are inclined to overindulge in sweet treats and alcoholic beverages, which metabolize like sugar in the body. - See more at: Basics of the Human Immune System Prior to Introduction of Vaccines: Are Vaccines Turning Our Children’s Immune Systems Inside Out? Part 2 | International Medical Council on Vaccination​