Vaccination and Religious Beliefs

[psychoslice]

Interesting.
One wonders what kind of mental gymnastics one has to employ in order to not take someone else seriously because of your own lie.

Ok then, I don't want to argue with you, we both wont get anywhere.

 

[McBell]

Ok then, I don't want to argue with you, we both wont get anywhere.

I never thought for a moment you would be honest enough in discourse to get anywhere.
I mean, look at all the bull **** you run around in this thread alone....

 

[psychoslice]

I never thought for a moment you would be honest enough in discourse to get anywhere.
I mean, look at all the bull **** you run around in this thread alone....

That's you opinion, and you welcome to it, as long as it tickles your ego.

 

[McBell]

That's you opinion, and you welcome to it, as long as it tickles your ego.

Thank you for further proving my point.

 

[psychoslice]

Thank you for further proving my point.

Your welcome.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Why should vaccination be mandatory? So they don't infect others? Ok, how would effect those that are already vaccinated? What sense does that make? It's their choice, nobody else's.

Seeing as most vaccinations are required for persons before they reach the age of majority, the answer to this question is painfully obvious and simple: To protect those who can't protect themselves. In considering that these vaccinations are childhood vaccinations, your objection makes absolutely no sense to me.

Please don't try to use my condition as your weapons, its not very nice.

As a weapon?

Pscychoslice, you misunderstand! My heart goes out to you at the depths of this misunderstanding as well as for being able to relate to feeling debilitating fears over things that simply aren't real!

I remind you of this symptom with great compassion! I, myself, suffer from anxiety disorders. In times of feeling anxious, or "people out to get me", or other times of stress, I constantly have to ask myself: "Is this real; or is this my disorders talking?" It is what keeps me sane. It is what kept me from wigging out, losing sleep or going off the deep end just last Friday when my anxieties kicked in and I was convinced I was losing my job! "Just relax", I told myself; "we'll see what happens next week." "So, you made a mistake and got called to the carpet last week", I told myself; "this has nothing to do with the current hard day we're all having". "NewGuy", I reminded myself, "you're boss's world doesn't revolve around you; relax, a hard day, whatever comes, we can deal with it, and what comes probably won't be getting fired. It's okay; you're safe!" All the while, the storm of fear raged on while I weathered it and beat it back ...

Knowing that I have anxiety disorders that have the potential of debilitating me and encourages me to make destructive choices is a must! It is what keeps me grounded when I'm convinced that my significant others are on the verge of washing their hands of me because we had a difference of opinion or I made a mistake that hurt their feelings!

One time, I failed and my mind worked overtime until I had convinced myself that my kind, loving, honest, law abiding parents had purchased my younger adopted brother on the black market; and I was so infuriated, I was ready to report this to the authorities!

Through hard work, relaxation exercises, critical thinking, meditation (whatever works for us) -- we can manage our irrational fears and anxieties! In my case, when I fail to manage these irrational fears and anxieties, what happens next is destruction: of jobs, friendships, opportunities ...

Weapon? Yes, a weapon! But not a weapon I am using against you; but a weapon I am trying to arm you with to use against the fears and nightmares.

 

[psychoslice]

Thanks NewGuyOnTheBloc, *I understand and sorry for what I said to you, but I am coping pretty good, my doctor is proud of me, but thanks for your advice, at least there is someone nice around here.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

You do not have to be sorry for what you said. Perhaps I was not clear in my intent. Either way, it is good to make your acquaintance and good to know that there are others who know what it's like to be frightened by our own imaginings.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Gee I really thought you were more intelligent than that, of course I would use that, my god it was first hand experience, more than what you would find just reading, especially from the very ones who hide the truth.

My first hand experience with many things is not within the range of the average person. I don't expect people to quit using sarcasm or saying something they don't actually mean just because I am prone to not "getting it." Rather, I have learned to watch and listen for certain that indicate such things, and of course getting to know someone really helps out a lot.
You yourself are in an atypical position. However, no matter what your sources say, allergic reactions to the vaccines are very rare. The benefits have clearly outweighed the risks. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Seeing as most vaccinations are required for persons before they reach the age of majority, the answer to this question is painfully obvious and simple: To protect those who can't protect themselves. In considering that these vaccinations are childhood vaccinations, your objection makes absolutely no sense to me.



As a weapon?

Pscychoslice, you misunderstand! My heart goes out to you at the depths of this misunderstanding as well as for being able to relate to feeling debilitating fears over things that simply aren't real!

I remind you of this symptom with great compassion! I, myself, suffer from anxiety disorders. In times of feeling anxious, or "people out to get me", or other times of stress, I constantly have to ask myself: "Is this real; or is this my disorders talking?" It is what keeps me sane. It is what kept me from wigging out, losing sleep or going off the deep end just last Friday when my anxieties kicked in and I was convinced I was losing my job! "Just relax", I told myself; "we'll see what happens next week." "So, you made a mistake and got called to the carpet last week", I told myself; "this has nothing to do with the current hard day we're all having". "NewGuy", I reminded myself, "you're boss's world doesn't revolve around you; relax, a hard day, whatever comes, we can deal with it, and what comes probably won't be getting fired. It's okay; you're safe!" All the while, the storm of fear raged on while I weathered it and beat it back ...

Knowing that I have anxiety disorders that have the potential of debilitating me and encourages me to make destructive choices is a must! It is what keeps me grounded when I'm convinced that my significant others are on the verge of washing their hands of me because we had a difference of opinion or I made a mistake that hurt their feelings!

One time, I failed and my mind worked overtime until I had convinced myself that my kind, loving, honest, law abiding parents had purchased my younger adopted brother on the black market; and I was so infuriated, I was ready to report this to the authorities!

Through hard work, relaxation exercises, critical thinking, meditation (whatever works for us) -- we can manage our irrational fears and anxieties! In my case, when I fail to manage these irrational fears and anxieties, what happens next is destruction: of jobs, friendships, opportunities ...

Weapon? Yes, a weapon! But not a weapon I am using against you; but a weapon I am trying to arm you with to use against the fears and nightmares.

That's kind of the problem. They are child vaccinations and it isn't too wise to cram them with a bunch of stuff before their immune systems fully develop and some vaccines aren't that good for you health wise, due to not enough tests or they just don't really do anything. For example like giving a kid a hepatitis b shot. Or if you remember the Gardisill vaccine which was a blunder. You don't cram a bunch of that stuff in their little bodies. Why else would some object to it? For fun? Maybe because not all vaccines are fully tested and have some bad effects on people? It's not difficult to see why some would object to it.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

I don't have blind trust in the medical field. Too many times, drugs such as Wellbutrin have been touted as some kind of miracle drug; but after a few years of use, like 20 or less, their nasty effects come to light with sad consequences.

So, a "new" vaccine, I would object strongly to subjecting my child (if I had a child) to that risk.

But the vast majority of vaccinations, such as Hepatitis, Polio and Whooping Cough, have shown impressive effectiveness in protect children, adults and society from the horrors of many diseases; while showing marginal or nonexistent risks.

The objections, in most cases, are based on fears and apprehensions; not facts.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I don't have blind trust in the medical field. Too many times, drugs such as Wellbutrin have been touted as some kind of miracle drug; but after a few years of use, like 20 or less, their nasty effects come to light with sad consequences.

So, a "new" vaccine, I would object strongly to subjecting my child (if I had a child) to that risk.

But the vast majority of vaccinations, such as Hepatitis, Polio and Whooping Cough, have shown impressive effectiveness in protect children, adults and society from the horrors of many diseases; while showing marginal or nonexistent risks.

The objections, in most cases, are based on fears and apprehensions; not facts.

Some of it is based on fears because some bad things have come from these kinds of vaccinations. Otherwise where would the fear come from in the first place? A baby isn't going to need a powerful vaccination for something like Hepatitis, which will most likely screw up their immune system because their immune system hasn't fully developed yet. Just because an organization approves it, doesn't mean it's safe. Same thing with the FDA. Do you know how many drugs they "approved" but turned out to do more damage? Especially when it's mandatory as nobody should be forced to take anything. The people who are "vaccinated" won't get infected from the people who don't get vaccinations, meaning they themselves will suffer. They will hurt no one but themselves.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Some of it is based on fears because some bad things have come from these kinds of vaccinations. Otherwise where would the fear come from in the first place? A baby isn't going to need a powerful vaccination for something like Hepatitis, which will most likely screw up their immune system because their immune system hasn't fully developed yet. Just because an organization approves it, doesn't mean it's safe. Same thing with the FDA. Do you know how many drugs they "approved" but turned out to do more damage? Especially when it's mandatory as nobody should be forced to take anything. The people who are "vaccinated" won't get infected from the people who don't get vaccinations, meaning they themselves will suffer. They will hurt no one but themselves.

Take a few moments... read some of this thread. I think you'll find most of the points you raised have been addressed. You'll find that everything you said just now is woefully wrong.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Take a few moments... read some of this thread. I think you'll find most of the points you raised have been addressed. You'll find that everything you said just now is woefully wrong.

It's wrong to protest against something that's being forced upon you against your will? What are you talking about? I made a case that others shouldn't be forced to take anything, even if it's supposedly for their own good.

I know enough about vaccines. Are they all dangerous, no. But I know some are untested and do more harm than good. How would I know? Research and personal experience. I don't just take people's word for it. I find out myself.

 

[Poisonshady313]

It's wrong to protest against something that's being forced upon you against your will? What are you talking about? I made a case that others shouldn't be forced to take anything, even if it's supposedly for their own good.

I know enough about vaccines. Are they all dangerous, no. But I know some are untested and do more harm than good. How would I know? Research and personal experience. I don't just take people's word for it. I find out myself.

You don't know enough about vaccines if you believe that people who don't vaccinate are only putting themselves at risk.

 

[philbo]

Otherwise where would the fear come from in the first place?

Correlation, which people mistake for causation (or intentionally scaremonger based on this)

..millions of babies and children are vaccinated, by sheer law of averages something bad will happen ot some of them soon after.

As an example I've already posted in this thread, a girl in Coventry died soon after her HPV vaccine shot: this made the front page of our local newspaper 100 miles away. Her post mortem showed that she had a pre-existing brain tumour - this was not even reported in our local newspaper.

That's where the fear comes from. In vaccine rumours and scaremongering, just as in real life, you often get smoke without fire.

 

[philbo]

I know enough about vaccines. Are they all dangerous, no. But I know some are untested and do more harm than good. How would I know? Research and personal experience. I don't just take people's word for it. I find out myself.

You say you know enough about vaccines? I don't think you know what you think you know

Untested? Complete and utter rubbish.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

You don't know enough about vaccines if you believe that people who don't vaccinate are only putting themselves at risk.

Yes I do know enough. I know that putting that many chemicals in little bodies screw up the immune system since a little body hasn't fully developed their immune system. Also you have to take into account that not everyone has the same type of body as some are more sensitive than others.

You say you know enough about vaccines? I don't think you know what you think you know

Untested? Complete and utter rubbish.

Why don't you look up the Gardasill vaccine before you dismiss it as rubbish. Look at what kind of vaccine that is and maybe you'll understand why some don't like vaccines. It isn't because they are crazy and don't know what they are talking about. They do. Do you believe that every vaccine is fully tested just because it's approved? Not to mention I personally know people that went through those kinds of vaccines and their bodies are messed up. But I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. I guess I just imagined all of that... Look it up if you don't believe me.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes I do know enough. I know that putting that many chemicals in little bodies screw up the immune system since a little body hasn't fully developed their immune system. Also you have to take into account that not everyone has the same type of body as some are more sensitive than others.



Why don't you look up the Gardasill vaccine before you dismiss it as rubbish. Look at what kind of vaccine that is and maybe you'll understand why some don't like vaccines. It isn't because they are crazy and don't know what they are talking about. They do. Do you believe that every vaccine is fully tested just because it's approved? Not to mention I personally know people that went through those kinds of vaccines and their bodies are messed up. But I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. I guess I just imagined all of that... Look it up if you don't believe me.

I Googled it and I still don't know what you're talking about. Can you help me out?

I did find this study that included 200,000 females:
Safety of quadrivalent human papillomavirus vaccine administered routinely to females. - PubMed - NCBI

And this one that included 997,585 females:
Autoimmune, neurological, and venous thromboembolic adverse events after immunisation of adolescent girls with quadrivalent human papillomavirus vaccine in Denmark and Sweden: cohort study | The BMJ

... That kind of poke holes in your belief that vaccines are not fully tested.

 

[philbo]

Look it up if you don't believe me.

Tell you what - hit me with the best evidence you have that Gardasil is untested and causes harm. Anything I've found so far shows completely the opposite.

Ha.. ninja'd by SkepticThinker